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MrNexx
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'd say that data spikes or burner conduits would be really "dirty"... they'd cause havoc in the system, alert connected systems, and generally make a trackable mess.
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Error
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Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | I disagree with it bypassing RP or die rolls. It has a skill rating, for instance.
Data spikes are tools that are best used when you can't get a slicer droid or Ghent with you. If you're a storm commando team or whatever, you won't necessarily be able to babysit something like Blue Max or someone like Ghent - particularly if you're going through a combat zone to get to your slicing target.
Personally, I would also say that data spikes tend to trip whatever security is on the system. Sure, it manages to slurp its data (by the way, the 'real world' attack is often called "pod slurping"), but it wouldn't be flexible enough to avoid tripping alarms - it is essentially doing a DOS attack ("assault systems with garbage data to overwhelm security measures"), which isn't exactly a quiet way of handling things.
I would also make 'em lighter. Having a slicer spike weigh 1 kg isn't exactly ... wieldy. Perhaps the size, shape, and weight of a 2-cell AA Maglite Mini or something - a somewhat fat pen, essentially. |
Good ideas. I especially agree that this item should probably require a Skill roll to use.
Man, Ghent... I remember loving him in the Thrawn trilogy. In fact, I loved him so much that I hereby coin the term "Ghenting" to describe the action of using a Burner Conduit and getting an awesome return. Like the thousand-page cargo manifest for a huge freight liner that is (for some in-game reason) scarcely guarded. "Man, we Ghented so good back there...look at this pump-action blaster shotgun we took from one of the guards!"
Agree with lighter, too. I was going to say as small as an 8GB USB drive. But I like the "fat pen" idea too. Anything that is easily hidden.
As far as a Burner Conduit being dirty, that is another dimension to explore. Should it cost more, take longer, and be cleaner? Or is it just a data smash 'n' grab?
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be inclined for something like a Burner Conduit to be more akin to taking an image of a drive or computer. So, instead of trying to access the data, a Burner Conduit would take an image of the drive, simply grabbing a massive amount of data without doing anything with it.
It would give you more time, but also move any data security you had on it... so, you can move everything to a computer you control, but any screamers it has are still around, and might let your opponents know where you are. You still have to slice it and get past the IC, but you don't have to do it while physical security is shooting you.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Just the word Burner conjures a completely different mental image for me. I picture a hardware device like a thumbnail drive that can be plugged into any access port on a computer, which then uploads a data-crash virus that attacks the system and eventually crashes it. The only way to stop the attack is to shut the entire system down and do a point-by-point physical search of every access point looking for the thumbnail drive, so the bigger the network, the more effect it will have.
This would make a great distraction for characters trying to escape from a star destroyer or other large Imperial base...
Incidentally, check out pages 5-6 in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide for more information on SWU computer languages. Apparently, data file creation is so advanced that individual files include a limited measure of AI built into them, and are actually able to make educated guesses based on the information that they already have.
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | I'd be inclined for something like a Burner Conduit to be more akin to taking an image of a drive or computer. So, instead of trying to access the data, a Burner Conduit would take an image of the drive, simply grabbing a massive amount of data without doing anything with it.
It would give you more time, but also move any data security you had on it... so, you can move everything to a computer you control, but any screamers it has are still around, and might let your opponents know where you are. You still have to slice it and get past the IC, but you don't have to do it while physical security is shooting you. |
This is pretty close to my vision.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Just the word Burner conjures a completely different mental image for me. I picture a hardware device like a thumbnail drive that can be plugged into any access port on a computer, which then uploads a data-crash virus that attacks the system and eventually crashes it. The only way to stop the attack is to shut the entire system down and do a point-by-point physical search of every access point looking for the thumbnail drive, so the bigger the network, the more effect it will have.
This would make a great distraction for characters trying to escape from a star destroyer or other large Imperial base...
Incidentally, check out pages 5-6 in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide for more information on SWU computer languages. Apparently, data file creation is so advanced that individual files include a limited measure of AI built into them, and are actually able to make educated guesses based on the information that they already have. |
So is this! The idea of being disposable figures greatly into the design I'm seeing.
I will write up a rules capsule tomorrow. Is there a guide to doing so anywhere?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | I will write up a rules capsule tomorrow. Is there a guide to doing so anywhere? |
Learn by doing. Write it up, then post it here for the rest of us to pick it apart and help you refine it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | I will write up a rules capsule tomorrow. Is there a guide to doing so anywhere? |
Learn by doing. Write it up, then post it here for the rest of us to pick it apart and help you refine it. |
And we are good at picking things apart! 8) 8) 
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | I will write up a rules capsule tomorrow. Is there a guide to doing so anywhere? |
Learn by doing. Write it up, then post it here for the rest of us to pick it apart and help you refine it. |
And we are good at picking things apart! 8) 8) |
No but seriously, can someone tell me where to find an example item so that I might copy the categories?
EDIT: I basically need directions to a page in the material which describes data spikes and/or datapads, and related devices. Just so I know how to write the stats.
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Last edited by Error on Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Pick any stat for an item or device in the WEG books.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have been waiting to wade into this discussion because I wanted to see the direction it would go. First thing that needs to be mentioned is the lack of Wifi in the SWU. This necessitates a hardwired attack on a system, meaning you need to be there sitting at a terminal or have access to the node.
The conduit thing your suggesting needs to be slipped into an access port for the node that is to be hacked. At the very least, this is going to require a Hide skill roll.
Okay so the conduit is connected and has access to the node. The problem now arises, where is the information and how does it find it? Is it effective vs encoded files? What are the parameters for the file search? I don't there is a standard file table for all ships and systems, let alone the files all being nearly named. Of course this is really not a big deal, this is space pulp after all, but we will need some things first.
1. What is the strength of the conduit to hack the system?
2. What is the strength of the node to be hacked?
So once those items are figured out then its a simple opposed roll. Success the information is found in an amount of time as determined by the GM. Failure, you get Hutt recipes, Twi'lek yodels or nothing. A critical failure not only do you not getting anything and the node alarm is tripped. I am assuming that it would be programmed to self destruct on a failure.
Okay, once the information is found it needs to find a way to send this information. As the conduit itself is small (perhaps the size of a mini thumb drive) I seriously doubt its going to be much on communication range. So what is the work around? It has to hack the communications and send a coded burst. This also requires at least another hacking roll and possibly a communications roll to encrypt/send the information to the appropriate location.
1. What is the Task Number to hack the communications?
2. Roll Strength vs TN.
3. What is the Task Number to send the encrypted message?
As with detection, I would assume if the communications cannot be hacked it would self destruct. As the encryption is not a revealed roll, meaning you do not tell if it is successful or not, that really isn't an issue to be worked out for the conduit.
I sort of like the idea that a conduit has a number of D available for the two functions it must perform and that it needs to be programmed with how many dice in each area.
For example a 10D conduit, the programmer sets its for Slicing 5D, Communications 5D. Or perhaps Slicing 6D, Communications 4D and so on.
I am just spit balling here.
I like the idea but for me there are too many variables and for it to work properly would require some knowledge of the target and the conduit would be specific to each job, not a skeleton key type of item.
I really like the remote access idea as this feels more in keeping with SW for me.
It just occurred to me, the C1 comlinks, the smallest I can remember off the top of my head have a range of 50 miles. Typical geosynchronous orbit is about 25,000 miles.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14253
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | I will write up a rules capsule tomorrow. Is there a guide to doing so anywhere? |
Learn by doing. Write it up, then post it here for the rest of us to pick it apart and help you refine it. |
And we are good at picking things apart! 8) 8) |
No but seriously, can someone tell me where to find an example item so that I might copy the categories?
EDIT: I basically need directions to a page in the material which describes data spikes and/or datapads, and related devices. Just so I know how to write the stats. |
Data spikes, micro thrust computers etc are in Craken's field guide page 11-13
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | I have been waiting to wade into this discussion because I wanted to see the direction it would go. First thing that needs to be mentioned is the lack of Wifi in the SWU. This necessitates a hardwired attack on a system, meaning you need to be there sitting at a terminal or have access to the node.
The conduit thing your suggesting needs to be slipped into an access port for the node that is to be hacked. At the very least, this is going to require a Hide skill roll.
Okay so the conduit is connected and has access to the node. The problem now arises, where is the information and how does it find it? Is it effective vs encoded files? What are the parameters for the file search? I don't there is a standard file table for all ships and systems, let alone the files all being nearly named. Of course this is really not a big deal, this is space pulp after all, but we will need some things first.
1. What is the strength of the conduit to hack the system?
2. What is the strength of the node to be hacked?
So once those items are figured out then its a simple opposed roll. Success the information is found in an amount of time as determined by the GM. Failure, you get Hutt recipes, Twi'lek yodels or nothing. A critical failure not only do you not getting anything and the node alarm is tripped. I am assuming that it would be programmed to self destruct on a failure.
Okay, once the information is found it needs to find a way to send this information. As the conduit itself is small (perhaps the size of a mini thumb drive) I seriously doubt its going to be much on communication range. So what is the work around? It has to hack the communications and send a coded burst. This also requires at least another hacking roll and possibly a communications roll to encrypt/send the information to the appropriate location.
1. What is the Task Number to hack the communications?
2. Roll Strength vs TN.
3. What is the Task Number to send the encrypted message?
As with detection, I would assume if the communications cannot be hacked it would self destruct. As the encryption is not a revealed roll, meaning you do not tell if it is successful or not, that really isn't an issue to be worked out for the conduit.
I sort of like the idea that a conduit has a number of D available for the two functions it must perform and that it needs to be programmed with how many dice in each area.
For example a 10D conduit, the programmer sets its for Slicing 5D, Communications 5D. Or perhaps Slicing 6D, Communications 4D and so on.
I am just spit balling here.
I like the idea but for me there are too many variables and for it to work properly would require some knowledge of the target and the conduit would be specific to each job, not a skeleton key type of item.
I really like the remote access idea as this feels more in keeping with SW for me.
It just occurred to me, the C1 comlinks, the smallest I can remember off the top of my head have a range of 50 miles. Typical geosynchronous orbit is about 25,000 miles. |
I like a lot of your ideas. When I finally get to the write-up, I will definitely include the "set number of dice" per Burner Conduit, and you can set it up with those.
The reason it burns is because of that momentary huge amount of power to broadcast to a receiver; Burner Conduits would have just enough to hack, slurp, and send a coded burst. Takes them one round usually, then they will begin to actually vaporize.
Also, as you noted (and some folks forget), this is Space Pulp. It's not a huge leap between letting someone slip a Burner Conduit into an ill-used node in an out-of-the-way place to get a prisoner list for a penal colony five sectors away.
Thanks though; I have been looking for more viewpoints on this device.
| garhkal wrote: | | Error wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Error wrote: | | I will write up a rules capsule tomorrow. Is there a guide to doing so anywhere? |
Learn by doing. Write it up, then post it here for the rest of us to pick it apart and help you refine it. |
And we are good at picking things apart! 8) 8) |
No but seriously, can someone tell me where to find an example item so that I might copy the categories?
EDIT: I basically need directions to a page in the material which describes data spikes and/or datapads, and related devices. Just so I know how to write the stats. |
Data spikes, micro thrust computers etc are in Craken's field guide page 11-13 |
Thank you!
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14253
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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That will be three tribbles look up fee 
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10455
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | First thing that needs to be mentioned is the lack of Wifi in the SWU. |
Surely you're not suggesting that planets and starships are hardwired to each other when they communicate virtually live on the Holonet? Or do you mean that there is intragalactic wireless communications but no local short range wireless connections? That seems rather odd.
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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I have been waiting to wade into this discussion because I wanted to see the direction it would go. First thing that needs to be mentioned is the lack of Wifi in the SWU. |
Why would they use primitive radio waves in the SWU when they have intergalactic holonet technology that provides nearly instantaneous communications across the galaxy?
Do you honestly think that the holonetwork isn't used for the same thing as our current internet?
Are you forgetting that military bases, both Imperial and Rebel, deliberately go to great lengths to isolate their computer systems to prevent access from unauthorized intrusions, and the very best security of that type is a closed system that doesn't allow remote access? The tech in SWU is so advanced that physically transferring info into a closed system is ridiculously fast.
Are you aware that Star Wars novels have slicers remotely hacking into computers using datapads?
In the X-Wing novels Grinder from Wraith Squadron used his slicing gear to hack into Commenor's "internet" from the cockpit of his X-Wing which was millions of miles away from the planet. If that's not remote access I don't know what is. |
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