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angelicdoctor
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Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 14
Location: The Republic of Texas
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 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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As a relative newcomer to the system, I am disposed to trying it out as the author(s) suggest. I am curious to find out if they actually help to set the stage, as it were, as is being sold to me.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10438
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Seghast wrote: | | Now, sometimes to set up an adventure, whoever is GMing for the night will pull a particular player aside and have a private discussion about what's going on and ask for help in getting the ball rolling. |
I've done that before too.
| DougRed4 wrote: | | Beyond that, if the player actually said "I'm not sure my character would say it like that", I would allow them to change/alter their single line of dialogue as well. |
Absolutely. I've had players that improve their lines. Rewording it but conveying the same information is no big deal.
| Seghast wrote: | | I think there's a problem if the GM can't establish the mood and story setting without hijacking a player's character without consent; that is a failure on his part, not the player. |
Hijack? Really? Since your group doesn't use them, it sounds like you may not even know what adventure scripts actually are. They are not used for entire adventure. That wouldn't be roleplaying, or even choose your own adventure. That would be a script reading of a play. Adventure scripts are typically only a few lines of dialogue from each character at beginning of the adventure. No character decisions are made for the PCs that the players might object to. PCs are not made to commit to any sort of significant course of action. The dialogue is primarily dispositional in nature, setting up the current situation for the players to facilitate jumping right into the adventure in media res (one of multiple methods available for doing this). Adventure scripts compose literally less than 2 minutes of an otherwise fully collaborative story. Seghast, your use of extreme words such as "hijack" suggest something much more invasive than a mere little adventure script. With respect to the adventure as a whole, adventure scripts are a drop of water in the Kamino ocean.
| Seghast wrote: | | You want to compare the RPG to movies? The actors in the movies needed scripts because they didn't create the characters; someone else did and they need the script as a guide on how to portray them properly. In the game, everyone makes their own character. Why should you, or anyone else, dictate how my creation thinks, acts, speaks, or feels? You didn't create him or his backstory, but I did. |
It is clear that is the way it works in your game, but that is not universal "in the game".
In my game, PC creation is a collaboration, primarily between each player and the GM, but before that, on a broader level, the whole group is involved. As the GM, I discuss the next campaign type I have in mind and get feedback from the players on it - a group discussion. Then the players that decide they are on board with it and I discuss any PC character ideas I have as a group, which kickstarts the conversation into discussing what general PC types should be a part of the group: species, character roles in the party, with very basic personality types and connections to other characters. Once we agree as a whole who is going to play what (at this broad level), the players individually work out a more specific concept for their own characters. Then each player meets with me individually and we fine tune the character concept together as a further collaboration, including the discussion of things like character development and character arcs for the campaign. Then the players each write-up the character sheet and submit them to me for final approval. I occasionally have to veto an aspect of a character here and there (RAW states the GM does have final say), but the back-and-forth process is not complete until the player and I can agree on final product. And sometimes over the course of the process individual ideas are brought in that change something established earlier in the process, and the group is brought on board to discuss and approve them as appropriate. In my game, overall campaign direction, themes and story-types are not strictly the domain of the GM, and PC creation is not strictly the domain of each player alone. It is a total collaboration, a very successful process that I implemented on a basic level as a teen GM in 1988 for my very first SW campaign. And the last group I was only a player in had basically the same process.
Another faux film/TV 'credit' in my campaigns is "Based on characters created by..." listing the name of the players with my name last. I am not the primary creator of any PC, but I am a co-creator of every PC in my game. If another GM has the players each privately create their PCs without any collaboration with the other players or the GM (especially with no interdiction to prevent PC duplication/overlap), and just works with whatever PC group he gets for the planned campaign, more power to him. Whatever works for them.
| Seghast wrote: | | I think there's a problem if the GM can't establish the mood and story setting without <adventure scripts>; that is a failure on his part, not the player. |
It sounds like you're not a GM but if you were I could respect your choice not to ever use adventure scripts. Adventure Scripts are certainly not required for this game, and I do not even use them in every adventure. Yes, I agree that mood and story setting can be established without them. I certainly do not think there's a "problem" with groups that do not use them, but Seghast you indicate you do have a "problem" with me as a GM because I use them. I guess you are entitled to any judgement of me as a GM you want to have, but since you are so vehemently opposed to adventure scripts you will never play in any of my games anyway.
I have made a mental note for future reference that there are SW players in existence that feel the way you do, but going back to 1988 I have never had a player that had any issue with reading a 90-second adventure script before diving into the RPG adventure. All the players I've had either like them because it can help them get into a cinematic mood, or at worst are completely indifferent to them because they are so inconsequential to the adventure as a whole and take no time away from the more interactive story. They just read their lines and move on the unscripted vast majority of the adventure.
And the fact that you consider me a "failure" for using adventure scripts is just laughable because you have no idea about the success rate of my GM methods. I recognize that I do have my individual weaknesses as a GM, but they are nothing you have criticized me for here. I have no doubt the vast majority of all my players over the years would disagree with you that I am a failure for using harmless little adventure scripts, or anything more impactful I have mentioned here.
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Seghast
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Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:07 am Post subject: |
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I said "a failure on his part," not that he (or you) is a failure as a whole; a failure to catch a ball here and there does not make a total failure of an athlete, no?
I'm sorry if you think I'm attacking you personally; believe me, I'm not, though perhaps my use of "you" instead of saying "the GM" gives that illusion. I'll try and do better on that part, but if we're going to go to thinks that feel hostile, your original comment that players "need to get over themselves" if they don't want someone else putting words in their character's mouth feel rather abrasive; you may find it selfish to not want to give control over to the GM like that, but I find it selfish for the GM to demand that sort of control.
Yes, I have GMed quite a few times and yes, I have read the adventure scripts as they have them in the books, but I still find them too limiting.
My view of what a GM does is take a look at the character concepts presented to him, approve or deny based on the story idea in his head, and then weave the pieces the players have given him together to create a larger universe.
As for the games I've ran or been a part of? The other players don't have a say in what you create for your character; it's a surprise when they meet your guy. The only exception to this will be if two players get together and decide that as part of their backstory, their guys know each other/are related/whatever. The surprise nature means that sometimes characters don't get along, but they go together out of necessity, or they end up clashing and fighting one another, whatever. It adds color to the game and to me, a hint of realism that you won't find if everyone collaborates during creation.
If adventure scripts are your thing, hey, cool; it's no skin off my back. I'm just saying I cannot understand why someone would want to and of the various players and other GMs that have come and gone over the past fifteen years, none have ever favored scripted dialogue prompts to get things going.
I like improv in my games because it keeps things unpredictable (just like real life) and that unpredictability makes it more fun for me. I've done theater and drama classes, acted for a friend's low-budget movie (that was sadly never finished), so I'm used to reading scripts for things. For a character that isn't mine, I'm okay with it. For something that is my creation, give me just enough information on the situation and let me decide how (or even if) I want to inform the others.
Just enough rope to hang myself, essentially; I just haven't managed to hang myself quite yet. |
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Lane Arroway
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Taris, Outer Rim
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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In my last adventure I started off with a classic openning crawl followed by a custom script. My players liked the experience. For me, it was cool to give them the facts they needed without just telling them "this is what you know, and... go!"
I don't expect to do this everytime, but it was cool. I also used cut scenes which in this adventure added tension and rounded out the story.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2286
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think that sounds like the perfect reason to use an adventure script, Lane.
And I also really agree that - provided you have good players that don't abuse out-of-character knowledge- cut scenes can be an excellent way of ratcheting up the tension and drama in a game.
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Lane Arroway
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 153
Location: Taris, Outer Rim
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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My favorite example of a cut scene is this:
Remember Empire Strikes back? Han, Leia, Chewy and Threepio are hiding in the asteroid field. Meanwhile, we(the audience) see Darth Vader's squad of Star Destroyers getting pounded by asteroids. He says that great line, "Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral. I want that ship. Not excuses."
So even if Han's player saw this cut scene he couldn't do anything about it. Even the characters could assume that the Star Destroyers are having a hard time in the asteroid field, it doesn't change their situation or lessen the threat against them.
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