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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Is that to say, Crmc, that you would disregard beskar's lightsaber (and blaster) resistant properties? |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Looking at the original post, I'm curious why there is a distinction between lightsaber in particular and energy weapons in general. I would think energy resistant or dissipative characteristics would apply to blasters, as well. It would certainly explain why Boba Fett's armor has such high damage resistance. |
I personally think that notion has its roots in the fact that the Mandalorians fought for the Sith in ages past; they've fought against both the Jedi AND the Sith at one time or another. While I don't know exactly when they discovered the fact that beskar was so successful at defending against a lightsaber, it's not surprising. They ARE highly resourceful, and highly determined to succeed. They would look for any advantage they could get.
I also personally think that the highly-used mention of the fact that beskar is lightsaber-resistant is simply due to how popular Boba Fett (and, subsequently, the Mandalorians in general) became. And as the history concerning the tension between the Mandos and the Force users grew, it became obvious that the Mandos needed some serious advantages in order to be able to hold their own against Jedi; beskar, and all those armor weapons they use, were the answer. |
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evilnerf
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2015
Posts: 165
Location: St. Charles
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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So I've decided to make a Mandalorian Sourcebook. I've taken a stab at Beskar'kandar, which is personal armor made of Mandalorian Armor
Beskar'kandar
Type: Custom Made Personal Battle Armor
Cost: Very Rare
Availability: Rare
Game Notes: +4D physical, +4D energy, -1D+2 Dexterity and related skills.
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2692
Location: Online
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Check this out Beskar'kandar (Mandalorian armor), which I believe I created before came up with the rules for the metal. To bring it up-to-date I would just add the +4D vs lightsabers.
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evilnerf
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2015
Posts: 165
Location: St. Charles
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:45 am Post subject: |
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My only issue with that is that the Mandalorian Armor stats I've seen is 4D phys and 3D Energy. That armor is considerably worse.
Boba Fett upgrades to Beskar in one of the Fate of The Jedi books, and I have a hard time seeing him do that when it would be a downgrade.
Also, it states no dex penalty when the Book of the Sith establishes definitively that it is heavy and slows someone down siginificantly.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | Is that to say, Crmc, that you would disregard beskar's lightsaber (and blaster) resistant properties? |
Not at all. I have no problem with energy resistant materials, given how hard it is to come up with opponents for Jedi. I simply find the majority of the TOTJ material to be eye-rollingly silly. Since Mandalorians have been touted in the EU as a long-time adversary of the Jedi, having a special Lightsaber resistant metal for them to make use of makes sense.
My problem has more to do with my feeling that the lightsaber rules are broken. Allowing Jedi to stack their Control dice with damage rapidly results in ridiculous, bucket o' dice scenarios, where the only way a character can survive is because of Wild Dice or expending a FP.
My current thinking is getting rid of most of Lightsaber Combat, folding the remaining aspects of it into Combat Sense (with a bonus of either +2D or based on the character's skill level in the weapon being used), and giving lightsabers a Damage of Dex+5D, instead of Str based damage. It's in the early stages, so I havent had a chance to work out the details, but my thinking is, with a blade that can cut through anything, the damage inflicted is going to be based more on how accurately you hit with it, not how hard you hit.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Lightsaber combat could definitely benefit from simplification. Too many convoluted powers modifying an otherwise strait forward exchange. Interested to see what you come up with. |
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Regarding beskar, does anyone have a clue to its value? Plates of refined iron vs raw beskar ore by the kilo for instance? Either would have to be astronomical, but the raw stuff would be slightly less so, being unusable without a master mando smith. |
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2692
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| evilnerf wrote: | | My only issue with that is that the Mandalorian Armor stats I've seen is 4D phys and 3D Energy. That armor is considerably worse. |
See below for explanation.
| Quote: | | Boba Fett upgrades to Beskar in one of the Fate of The Jedi books, and I have a hard time seeing him do that when it would be a downgrade. |
Fett's mandalorian battle armor is heavily modified and is 4D vs physical and 3D vs energy with no Dexterity penalty. If we assume he upgrade his armor as much as he could, 1D+2 that means his armor started out at 2D+1 physical and 1D+1 energy and a -1D Dexterity penalty. This is only slightly better than Stormtrooper armor, so I am willing to give a pass on the extra pips.
The suggestion I made of +2D energy/physical could be upgraded to 3D+2 and has no Dexterity penalty because of its custom design for the wearer. This makes it only -1 pip worse vs physical and +2 pips better than the armor you suggest. Toss in the beskar'kandar armor inserts you add +4D vs lightsabers and a -1 Dexterity penalty.
I do not remember if Fett's new armor was 100% beskar'kandar or inserts. I tend to think it was inserts and that the new armor was more symbolic of the a new era for the mandalorian people. Since they had not made new armor is quite some time and that the armor was central to their culture, the idea of creating something you could not reflects that.
If one goes from the idea that the armor was not inserts but 100% made from beskar'kandar I suppose if could be argued it would start out something like: 2D+2 energy/physical, +4D vs lightsabers and no Dexterity penalty once adjusted for the wearer. Once fully upgraded it would be +4D.
I would point out that is just plain game breaking though. A 2D or 3D Strength wearer would have a 6-7D soak making him invulnerable to pretty much all physical damage and the heaviest blaster pistols and rifles. I get that people have the perception that mandalorians are badasses, but I think its more than just the armor they wear. Its their culture, tactics, and skills with specialized armor. The armor is as much symbol as tool.
| Quote: | | Also, it states no dex penalty when the Book of the Sith establishes definitively that it is heavy and slows someone down siginificantly. |
As I stated above the baskar'kandar inserts would give a -1D Dexterity penalty. So I am not understanding this line.
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evilnerf
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2015
Posts: 165
Location: St. Charles
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Okay, so after talking with ShootingWomprats, I decided it wouldn't be appropriate to have Beskar armor rules, without having normal Mandalorian Armor rules. With that in mind, here are my rules for Mandalorian Armor, including Beskar.
Mandalorian Armor
Type: Custom Made Personal Battle Armor
Cost: Variable
Availability: Unique
There is no such thing as thing as "Standard" Mandalorian armor. Each suit in the modern day is handcrafted by Armorsmiths who have been learning their trade for generations and spend months, maybe years working on suits. Most suits are crafted, then immediately modified t their maximum value. Therefore, traditional Mandalorian armor has protective qualities that non-Mandalorians can only dream out.
Step One: The Forge
Base Stats: 2D+2 Physical, 1D+2 Energy, -1 Dexterity
At this point, the armor is only fit for outsiders and children. Still, it looks like Mandalorian Armor and for some weaklings, that's enough.
Step Two: The Smithing
Crafted Stats: 4D Physical, 3D Energy, -1 Dexterity
A true Mandalorian Armorsmith is not done with their work until it has been approved to it's maximum extent. At this point, the armor is truly "Beskar'gam"and cannot be improved any further.
Step Three: The Fitting
Each suit has to be customized to fit it's wearer so it doesn't interfere with movement. A suit, having been properly fitted (requiring a Difficult "Equipment Repair" roll. When this is completed, the user does not suffer any dexterity penalty from their armor.
The Helmet
The "Buy'ce" or helmet is crafted along with the armor and contains the following upgrades by default, although more are usually added after creation.
Default Helmet: Sealed Enviro Filter, Internal Comlink (Helmet)
If worn just by itself, it has the following stats and does not get any bonuses for materials:
2D Physical, +2 Energy (Head Only)
Materials
Mandalorian armor is traditionally made by Beskar, or Mandalorian Armor, however, as the material is rare and expensive, Mandalorian Armorsmiths often make due with Durasteel or Alum. The status above represent armor made by Durasteel Armor.
Alum
Armor made from Alum (traditionally used by the soldiers of Death Watch and the Mandalorian Supercommandos) has the following base stats after it completes the Smithing and fitting process:
4D Physical, 3D+1 Energy
Beskar
Suits crafted with true Beskar have always been rare, especially during the Imperial Era. Mandalorian Iron is nearly industructable and impervious to lightsabers. Mandalorian Iron confers the following properties to the armor after it fully completes the crafting process, as even when fitted correctly, it still slows the wearer down due to the weight.
4D physical, 4D Energy, -1 Dexterity.
Because Mandalorian Iron is more resiliant than other materials, when calculating "Damaged Armor" treat the damage as if it was two steps lower.
Decoration
Mandalorian warriors decorated their armor to reflect personal accomplishments, clan affiliation, or simply personal preference. They often repainted their armor to reflect rank, clan, and possibly the current terrain. They were also known to paint their armor in the traditional colors that represented specific causes the individual might currently be undertaking. The colors, however, did not always have a specific meaning. Sometimes they were just colors that the particular Mandalorian liked. Some Mandalorians wore pieces of armor to honor relatives, both dead and alive. As of the Clone Wars, these colors were known to have significance:
1. Gray=Mourning a Lost Love
2. Red=Honoring a Parent
3. Black=Justice
4. Gold=Vengeance
5. Green=Duty
6. Blue=Reliability
7. Orange=A Lust for Life[/i]
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am completely unfamiliar with the reference to Vader's Castle, or the Karen Travis Novels. I see from a quick look they are all circa 2004 or later - which was when I gave up on much of the EU material as, IMHO, it just kept getting more ridiculous with exaggerating things.
I don't think I agree with it being Lightsaber Proof, but that's my opinion. Certainly as I said it has always been attributed as being somewhat hardened and slightly more resistant to Lightsabers (as well as blasters). I will say no more though.
Thank you for the references. I will at least glance over them for familiarity.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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