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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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LOL. Well played, sir, well played.
In all fairness, I picked my avatar out one morning before I had had my coffee, and that Besalisk looked almost exactly how I felt.
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think the either/or on the missiles and jammer comes from the lack of space in an A-wing. I personally don't see it being capable if carrying both at the same time.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I've got two EU sources that say otherwise...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I've stated my opinion. You've stated yours. Why the argument?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | I've stated my opinion. You've stated yours. Why the argument? |
Habit?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14254
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I've got two EU sources that say otherwise... |
I'd say official weg sources override EU ones.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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cr, thanks for sharing your vision of the A-Wing (and B-Wing in the other thread). But here we go with a quasi-'Obi-Wan Force stats' type of blow-up again.
We can discuss things, but there is no need to argue about whether a fictional spaceship has only missiles or jammers, or has both. There is also no need to argue whether the ship can have both or not. cr is right that the EU is largely self-contradictory. He is sharing his version of the ship for his game in case it may help or inspire others. That's what we do here all day. He is stating the sources he referred to and tried to explain the choices he made for his SWU. If you disagree, you can state that you do and why, but it is pointless for any of us to go beyond that and try to argue why our choice is better or more accurately represents the bulk of the EU sources or whatever. This is all fantasy. As GM, you are the all-powerful god of your fantasy world. If you want your A-Wings to have concussion missiles and fire control jammers, then hand wave - poof, it has them. If you don't want them to have them or feel they can't, then they don't. Don't waste time and energy trying to convince another GMs how to do it for their game. Everyone can just present their options and everyone else can take it or leave it.
And if it helps any of you, I suggest applying some of that good ol EU contradiction salve to A-Wings. Maybe A-Wings come in three variations: Ones with missiles, ones with jammers, and ones with both. Maybe system space is a concern and the cost to condense both systems to fit in the same ship is so great that they are rare. But they can exist in your game, if you want them to.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | We can discuss things, but there is no need to argue about whether a fictional spaceship has only missiles or jammers, or has both. There is also no need to argue whether the ship can have both or not. cr is right that the EU is largely self-contradictory. He is sharing his version of the ship for his game in case it may help or inspire others. That's what we do here all day. He is stating the sources he referred to and tried to explain the choices he made for his SWU. If you disagree, you can state that you do and why, but it is pointless for any of us to go beyond that and try to argue why our choice is better or more accurately represents the bulk of the EU sources or whatever. This is all fantasy. As GM, you are the all-powerful god of your fantasy world. If you want your A-Wings to have concussion missiles and fire control jammers, then hand wave - poof, it has them. If you don't want them to have them or feel they can't, then they don't. Don't waste time and energy trying to convince another GMs how to do it for their game. Everyone can just present their options and everyone else can take it or leave it. |
A huge "Amen" to that, good sir.
I wish more people realized they don't need to "win" every discussion. If you don't like someone's idea, that's perfectly fine, just don't use it in your game. But don't try to tell that someone that they are somehow "objectively" wrong or bad for wanting to use it themselves.
See my and cr's recent "stairs vs ladder" disagreement in his AT-AT thread. We both stated our preferences and debated the merits of both for a wile, but ultimately agreed to disagree and went on our ways amicably. In his game, cr will have his AT-AT with stairs, and in my game I will have mine with ladders, and we're both be happy. No need for drama.
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Mikael Hasselstein
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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What Leon and Whill say has great merit in the sense of 'whatever floats your boat'. While we all break our heads over the inconsistencies, I think we should, at the same time, be rather amazed at the degree of consistency as well.
At the same time, these arguments also serve the purpose of building a generally agreed-upon understanding of the SWU. Sometimes that means admitting to the idea that whatever was floating your boat is not necessarily the most logical or (generally) literature-supported view. Sure, you can continue with your apostacy and no one will (or should) burn you at the stake for doing so. But, ultimately, we're all here because we want a generally agreed-upon understanding of the SWU.
(That said, I have no position on the A-Wing, and don't really care either. I'm just using the occasion to pontificate upon the thought I had at the moment. ) |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Whill.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | But, ultimately, we're all here because we want a generally agreed-upon understanding of the SWU. |
You really think so? If that's why you're here, than whatever floats your boat. I wish you all the luck in this endevour. But I'm very sure that's not why I'm here, not at all.
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Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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LOL! Yes, I am actually rather relieved that I get to pick and choose whether or not to agree with you people, generally or otherwise. 
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | But, ultimately, we're all here because we want a generally agreed-upon understanding of the SWU. |
You really think so? If that's why you're here, than whatever floats your boat. I wish you all the luck in this endevour. But I'm very sure that's not why I'm here, not at all. |
I do think so, yes. If it's all about just having my own private views on the SWU, then why would I want to come here? I can have my own view on the SWU without you guys just fine. In fact, it's more comfortable, because in my own head my view isn't challenged the way it is here.
The thing is, in some cases, some of you might have interpretations that really enhance mine, and I can develop mine more deeply. Also, maybe what I had been thinking radically contradicts some very good published material, and you guys can point that out to me.
Now, I'm not saying that I'm just an inoffensive sponge of other people's views. I have some strong ones of my own, and I know that I'm just not going to win over some people on them. I can live with that. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10455
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | But, ultimately, we're all here because we want a generally agreed-upon understanding of the SWU. |
Ultimately? All? I respect that that is why you are here, but please do not proceed with that false assumption about everyone else here.
Please be advised that I have never been, am not, and never will be here because I want a general agreed-upon understanding of "the" SW "U". I do not need or want consensus, and there is no single SW Universe to interpret. There is a SW Multiverse, and each of us has his own individual SWU. Lucas himself even said as much, if that's important to you.
I am here to share ideas with others to assist others and further develop my own ideas. I am not the only one. I freely pick and choose the ideas of others that benefit me for MY SWU and disregard the rest. Others pick and choose my ideas they like and disregard the rest. Many of us here do not need to determine and conform to a consensus, but I respect that your appreciation of Star Wars and this WEG RGP may be incredibly contrary to mine.
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