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Blue Glowie
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Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Midi-Chlorians, how do they work? |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | We do the same in real life, only our quantification takes the form of grades, paychecks, sports stats, world records, IQ's, etc. Using dice is just a way to express those quantified qualities in a way that we can play around a table. |
I agree. I'm not disputing quantification in games by any means, and not how WEG handles it. But characters don't run around saying "that guy totally has 6D in Sense," and that's kinda what Midichlorians are saying.
Treating the Force the same way we treat sports stats and IQ's demystifies the "magic." And I also agree that Force sensitivity should vary from person to person, but "strong in the force" and "stronger in the force" should never have been quantified (outside of games). |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I don't read anywhere in the movie dialogue that it says that the midi-chlorians were the source of the Force. Qui-Gon indicates they communicate the Force to the Jedi, which means the Force and the midi-chlorians are still individual (yet intertwined) concepts. The Force is still the same mystical energy field created by all living things that it was presented as in the classic trilogy. The midi-chlorians are just the 'middle man' for the Force.
As far as life not being able to exist without the midi-chlorians, perhaps midi-chlorians were the first lifeforms in the Star Wars galaxy and all life evolved from them. Or it could be that life cannot exist without the Force and the midi-chlorians are merely what transmits the energy of the Force into a field that surrounds and binds the galaxy.
IMO, those who feel that the midi-chlorians somehow ruin the mystique of the Force are just reading too much into it. The midi-chlorians were used as a minor plot point to illustrate the Anakin as a higher Force potential than any being in the galaxy. This quantifiable potential made him a possible candidate of being the Chosen One. The ambiguity of him definitely being a possible candidate and not definitely being the Chosen One is to allow the characters to debate and change their view as Anakin develops, but also allow for the reality of him eventually being revealed as the Chosen One.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think the reason that some people from our generation don't like midi-chlorians is related to the fact as viewers, we knew all along that Anakin would join and eventually destroy the Sith. There was no ambiguity for us as viewers. We didn't need Anakin's potential to be quantifiable by any measure because we already knew what happens in the end. So midi-chlorians just seem unecessary to many.
The plot point is more meaningful for the new generations of viewers watching the films in chronological order, like my wife. The prequels' ambiguity about Anakin was a dramatic device worked for her. At the end of Ep III when she realized that the next trilogy would be about Padme and Anakin's children, she had assume like Obi-Wan and Yoda that Anakin was not the Chosen One afterall. Perhaps it was Luke or Leia?
During Ep VI she assumed that Luke would somehow kill the two Sith Lords, meaning Luke would be the Chosen One. She noticed the parallel to Anakin's fall when Luke was attacking Vader in rage, worried that he would join the Dark Side and become the next Sith apprentice of Palpatine. She exclaimed "No!" when Luke threw away his lightsaber. She was totally suprised by the way it turned out. When my wife got to the end of Ep VI she said, "So Qui-Gon was right about Anakin afterall. He was the Chosen One."
For my purposes in running the game, the concept of midi-chlorians is not needed for the concept of the Force. It is an unnecessary level of detail. It doesn't really add anything, but it also doesn't subtract anything.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dustflier
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Joined: 21 Feb 2011
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Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Whill, your posts are, as always, exceptionally well thought out. I think that you are absolutely right about the purpose of these seemingly unnecessary details for anyone familiar with the Original Trilogy before it had to be called such.
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The Brain
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
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QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist.
(COUGH, COUGH) Ysalamiri (COUGH)
ANAKIN : I don't understand.
Neither does the audience Anakin |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist.
(COUGH, COUGH) Ysalamiri (COUGH)
ANAKIN : I don't understand.
Neither does the audience Anakin |
No one ever said the jedi were right. I think they just make stuff up so people will think they're smart.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | The Brain wrote: | QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist.
(COUGH, COUGH) Ysalamiri (COUGH)
ANAKIN : I don't understand.
Neither does the audience Anakin |
No one ever said the jedi were right. I think they just make stuff up so people will think they're smart. |
Actually, that sounds more like George Lucas than the Jedi.
In the NJO series, the Jedi have to deal with the fact that Yuuzhan Vong appear to be outside the Force, and ultimately reach the conclusion that the error is not in the Force, but in their own incomplete perception of it. The same is true of the Ysalamiri. Just because they "block the Force" does not mean that they are not present in the Unifying Force; they simply obstruct or obscure the Force in such a way that a Jedi is rendered powerless by their presence.
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | ...In the NJO series, the Jedi... ultimately reach the conclusion that the error is not in the Force, but in their own incomplete perception of it. The same is true of the Ysalamiri. Just because they "block the Force" does not mean that they are not present in the Unifying Force; they simply obstruct or obscure the Force in such a way that a Jedi is rendered powerless by their presence. |
Maybe they emit a vibrational subspace wave that puts the midichlorians in a trance like state thereby impeding a Jedi's ability to use the Force? |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Maybe they emit a vibrational subspace wave that puts the midichlorians in a trance like state thereby impeding a Jedi's ability to use the Force? |
That wouldn't explain why Jedi aren't able to sense the Force within the dampening sphere generated by a Ysalamiri, even when they are outside the sphere and trying to look in.
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Dustflier
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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That's an interesting thought: attack the Midi-chlorians to shut off the Force.
I am surprised that there hasn't been a Star Wars villain who has tried it. Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords attempted to destroy the Force by creating a series of echoing wounds a la Obi-Wan's reaction to the destruction of Alderaan, but nobody has really messed around with trying to kill off the Midi-chlorians to deaden the powers of Force sensitives.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Dustflier wrote: | | I am surprised that there hasn't been a Star Wars villain who has tried it. Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords attempted to destroy the Force by creating a series of echoing wounds a la Obi-Wan's reaction to the destruction of Alderaan, but nobody has really messed around with trying to kill off the Midi-chlorians to deaden the powers of Force sensitives. |
Perhaps that's what happens when a Jedi uses Sever Force.
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Dustflier
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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I somewhat doubt that... from what I've read, Sever Force manifests itself as a wall of Light Side power, almost a shield holding the Force back. This is completely different from the decimation of the Midi-chlorians (which I think would perhaps be a Dark Side version).
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Dustflier wrote: | | I somewhat doubt that... from what I've read, Sever Force manifests itself as a wall of Light Side power, almost a shield holding the Force back. This is completely different from the decimation of the Midi-chlorians (which I think would perhaps be a Dark Side version). |
That's like saying a blaster bolt shouldn't leave a big gaping burned hole just because it manifests as a linear energy discharge. Something may manifest as one thing and have an effect that has no visual or physical similarity to its manifestation. Besides, if midichlorians are the physiological manifestation of Force Sensitivity, and a person with a detectable midichlorian count is stripped of the Force, it is a reasonable assumption that their midichlorians would be affected in some way.
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Dustflier
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is more like saying that a blaster bolt shouldn't leave ice crystals, or a lightsaber blade shouldn't leave wet spots. Similarly, a purely Light Side power shouldn't kill or injure a physical aspect of its target on its own.
Now, if it is a neutral or Dark Side power, that might work.
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JT Swift
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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For whatever its worth, I'm with Whill 100% on his interpretation. Their just the middleman.
A jedi needs some middle men communicate with the Force and get it to do things for him. But having loads of middle men doesn't automatically make one jedi more powerful then another. They use the Force, not the middle men.
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