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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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 Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I love this! The "damned if they do, damned if they don't" adventure hooks are the best kind. Nice little nod to Firefly too. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Nice. and i like your guys raging form stuff.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I like the adventure outline quite a lot however I'm not a big fan of changing constants (such as the identity and intentions of the cargo and buyer) based on the actions of the players. To me that feels like cheating.
I'm fine with players getting themselves into situations where there may be no right answers or where the choices are grey rather than black and white but leaving details mutable so that players always find themselves in trouble (even amusing and plot driven trouble) detracts from the interactivity of role playing, at least in my mind anyway.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4853
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I can see why you might feel like it's cheating... after all, if you're writing a novel and then you alter backstory, then the audience feels cheated.
However, I feel that in a roleplaying game it's the GM's job to help the players find a good time. In my experience, players have had the most fun when they're struggling against adversity and only staying one step ahead of (or sometimes one step behind) trouble. The occasionally mutable background is one method of achieving that goal of producing the dramatic tension.
It's something that a GM can't do ALL the time, otherwise the players do feel like everything is futile, and there is no way to get ahead. It's also something that is completely useless if the players know that you're doing. It's a device, IMHO, to be used occasionally to achieve a sense of excitement and tension at the game table.
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | I can see why you might feel like it's cheating... after all, if you're writing a novel and then you alter backstory, then the audience feels cheated.
However, I feel that in a roleplaying game it's the GM's job to help the players find a good time. In my experience, players have had the most fun when they're struggling against adversity and only staying one step ahead of (or sometimes one step behind) trouble. The occasionally mutable background is one method of achieving that goal of producing the dramatic tension.
It's something that a GM can't do ALL the time, otherwise the players do feel like everything is futile, and there is no way to get ahead. It's also something that is completely useless if the players know that you're doing. It's a device, IMHO, to be used occasionally to achieve a sense of excitement and tension at the game table. |
Exactly. After years of gaming players become surprisingly good at sniffing out plots. By keeping the plot mutable you can keep them on their toes. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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I agree whole heartedly, some of the best games I've played in have been where the GM was always one step ahead and we really had to work for every inch of character advancement.
Perhaps it's just because I'm seeing the artifice behind the story that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth however my favourite moments as a GM has been when the players did something unexpected and took the story in a new tangent (often ruining/discarding painstakingly created plot hooks). I feel that mutable story elements deny (or hinder) the player’s the ability to take the story in an entirely unexpected direction and surprise the GM.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | | Exactly. After years of gaming players become surprisingly good at sniffing out plots. By keeping the plot mutable you can keep them on their toes. |
Yeah. If the GM works out the major NPCs, their motivations, and goals, the the plots become less transparent and more adaptable to changing situations. IT allows the NPCs to take advantage of the circumstances.
In the adventure I'm currently running, the villain, Baron Lesk, was planning to kill the rightful Prince, claim the throne, and plant evidence that would point the finger of blame at the negotiators from the Republic (the player characters), allowing the Baron to get the planet to join the Separatists.
Everything was going according to plan when the Baron noticed that one of the PCs had a lightsaber. After being informed that the PC was not a Jedi but that he had found the lightsaber, the Baron altered his plans. Rather that using the evidence he had fabricated for the plot, he decided to kill the Prince with the lightsaber, and blame the Jedi for the assassination. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
In the adventure I'm currently running, the villain, Baron Lesk, was planning to kill the rightful Prince, claim the throne, and plant evidence that would point the finger of blame at the negotiators from the Republic (the player characters), allowing the Baron to get the planet to join the Separatists.
Everything was going according to plan when the Baron noticed that one of the PCs had a lightsaber. After being informed that the PC was not a Jedi but that he had found the lightsaber, the Baron altered his plans. Rather that using the evidence he had fabricated for the plot, he decided to kill the Prince with the lightsaber, and blame the Jedi for the assassination. |
That's what I'm talking about! The constants (The NPC's personality and goals) remained constant but because the GM had those fixed in his mind he was able to have the NPC adapt his plans to the circumstances.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: |
That's what I'm talking about! The constants (The NPC's personality and goals) remained constant but because the GM had those fixed in his mind he was able to have the NPC adapt his plans to the circumstances. |
It allows the character to keep "true" to themselves while still acting like living beings, and not automatons. As long as the GM knows the NPCs, their personality, goals, and methods, he can get away with less structured/linear plots. For example, knowing what Palpatine's eventual goals are, a GM can have him do things and change his plans to take advntage of new developments-like, say, the appearance of a 10 year old prodigy who is strong with the Force. Or, in my campaign, what to do about a 18 year old Force Sensitive, Jedi wannabe who shows up on Corsuscant with his own lightsaber and Jedi Holocron.
For those who haven't seen it, I recommend looking at Spirit of the Century. Since it is designed as a "pick up RPG" the adventure design is much more free form than in more traditional RPGs. The GM usually starts off with a villain, a very basic plot idea, a couple of scenes, and a lot of room to "wing it". |
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4853
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | ... my favourite moments as a GM has been when the players did something unexpected and took the story in a new tangent (often ruining/discarding painstakingly created plot hooks). I feel that mutable story elements deny (or hinder) the player’s the ability to take the story in an entirely unexpected direction and surprise the GM. |
I think that if the GM had nothing but mutable plot elements then you would be completely right. I don't think I would enjoy a game where I couldn't feel in control of my own character and destiny.
I agree that creating an unexpected story is a great part of a good game. Which is why I think that the mutable background is good when used like red pepper flakes. Use is in moderation, and don't use it in every dish. 
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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That npc changing the plan to frame the group after seenig them, shows just how easy it is to get the party.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That npc changing the plan to frame the group after seenig them, shows just how easy it is to get the party. |
It kind of helps when the adventure it written that way. 
Since the basic storyline was for the PCs to get framed, escape from prison and them thwart the assassination attempt, everything was indeed remarkable easy to accomplish. In fact, since the PCs were being "framed", it would have been difficult for them not to be "gotten".
But I don't fell guilty about it, since I also wrote a couple ways out of the problem, and eventually the PCs will end up saving the Prince, thwart the Separatist takeover of the planet, bring peace between this plant and a rival, earn some browning points from the Senators who sent them on this mission, earn major brownie points from the Prince, get a couple of status and equipment perks, and get a reoccurring villain in the form of the Baron.
What I feel guilty about was having Senator Amadala drop out of the mission at the last moment and sending Representative Binks with the group in her place. |
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Zorg
Cadet
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 14
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
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We played this little adventure yesterday, and things went well.
The players chose to take the girl to the buyer anyways, and they got accused of murdering him. They were put in holding cells, but could after a while talk their way out of it. They decided to go back to the planet where they got the mission and accuse their employer of using them as bait to let his assassin escape.
The part that their ship was junk went really well, and i didnt even have to "alter" the rules to do it. We used cheshire's mishap document, and they got mishaps 4 times when flying the plane . Lots of different parts in the engine was damaged, they got the mishaps each time they landed and took off.
They avoided all fighting, but the Dazouri changed into his rageform when they were apprehended. He never had a chance and was soon mowed down by almost 20 guards shooting stun ammo into him. The local doctor then made some modifications to him, which resulted in that it now is nearly impossible for him to change into his rage form. I was thinking about maybe making this into some sort of adventure, making it so that the doctor also hid a small storage device inside him which has very valuable information.
So now i just have to start thinking about their next job, any ideas?
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4853
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I've got some ideas brewing on what you could do. I'll post them later today after I've got more of my house packed up.
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Lostboy
Commander
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you looking for a short adventure or the intro to something bigger. |
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