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scott2978
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "...d20s usually turn into "i hit him, he swings at me, i swing at him..." and so on." |
This can be in any RPG that uses to-hit rolls.
| Quote: | | "Also - any first level character has no chance with 10th level anything (for example ant )" |
In D20 normal insects can't have levels. There is a mechanic for improving mundane things like deer and sheep and ants and anything else into a more powerful version through levels or special abilities, but in D20 a normal ant is no more powerful than in D6. An ant with levels is no longer a normal ant, it's something else... like... a "dire ant"... or something... oh my...
| Quote: | | "<something> proficiency - you can't use it because you are of wrong class, thats strange for me." |
In D20 anyone can use anything. There are no class restrictions on what gear you can use. In D&D there are class-related reasons for not being good at the use of certain things, like Wizards (metal interfers with spell magic or some such, and stiff armor makes gesticulating difficult) But, characters without skill in the use of something take penalites.
EDIT: If an item is magical, it might only allow characters of a certain class or race to use it. But that's the magic talking, not the item itself.
| Quote: | | "Armor class - WTF?" |
Armor class is a condensed, abstract quantification of your character's combat prowess in personal defense. It incorporates his dexterity, his armor toughness, and his skill (ie: level) in combat. It's just a way to simplify defence.
| Quote: | | "D20 is more constraining while trying to tell you what you can and cant do in a round, where the D6 system is more open, you can do whatever you want in a round, some things are just harder to do." |
A major difference between D6 and D20 is that in D6 you can do as many things as you want as long as you still have dice. In D20 it's one action per round (or something ike that). I find D20 more realistic in this respect. During any given 5 seconds of combat, a human being can only do so much. but in D6, if I'm really really skilled I can cook dinner, swing a vibroaxe, burp the baby and mix a martini all in one round.
| Quote: | | "No dodge. Yeah, it's supposed to be part of your Armor Class, but I don't buy it. C'mon, let me duck out of the way!" |
I have to agree with this. D20 is less realistic in that your defense is always static. In D20, you can choose to roll and flub, thereby screwing yourself, which in my life experience, is far more realistic...
| Quote: | | "Hit Points. I hate the ol' "lay the 20th level warrior on a stone slab and hack away at his neck with an axe for about an hour, before it falls off". " |
In D&D, if a 20th level fighter laid down and let you stab him in the neck with a dagger, he would have to make a saving throw or die instantly. The DC of the saving throw is 20+ the damage you did with the dagger, and his only bonus to his 1D20 roll to resist insta-death would be his character's constitution bonus (ie: something like +5 for a really, really good normal human without magical enhancement) Furthermore, the attack would be an automatic critical strike since the fighter is making no attempt to defend himself. So the damage roll for the dagger would be 1D4 times 2, plus 1/2 of any Strength bonus the attacker has. So if he rolled average and got a 2, and was normal strangth average guy, the fighter would have to roll a 19 or higher on his 1D20 roll, or he would be dead. That's for a 1st level normal dude armed with a DAGGER vs a 20th level fighter! Hit points don't come into play here, it's save or die because the fighter chooses not to defend himself.
| Quote: | | "Levels. All of a sudden you become exponentially more powerful. I love the gradual (almost imperceptive) D6 advance." |
I agree!
| Quote: | | "Classes. They may work for D&D but they have no place in a Star Wars game." |
The most logical reason for not having classes in Star Wars. I agree.
| Quote: | | "You get better, the DC's increase with you...so by higher levels you have no chance of doing simple things in more than a handful of skills that you maxed...which still are "even odds" because the DC increased with you." |
That's not technically true. The DC for a 1st level rogue to hear an aproaching 1st level Orc warrior is the same as it is for a 20th level rogue. The thing is the 20th level rogue probably isn't going after 1st level Orcs anymore. He's going after 18th level Orc Assasins who have stealth abilities and lots of magic. The DC for any given task never changes, but through the course of a character's life the challenges he faces get harder. The 1st level rogue has the same DC to disarm a 17th level magic fire pit trap as the 20th level rogue does... but he has no chance to succeed really because the DC is too high for him.
All in all I like the D&D 3.x system, and I like the D6 system. But I'm something of a "RPG purist". I don't like cross-genre game mechanics like Gurps and Masterbook. I think each game mechanics system should be tailored to it's intended genre so that it fits. So D6 works best for Star Wars, but D20 works best for D&D. the genre really does make a difference, and there is a psychological effect to keeping each game system specific to it's own genre too. It gives a given game a feel all it's own.
Scott |
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ebertran
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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As a looooong time D&D'er, I'd have to agree. D20 has it's place in gaming, just not in SW.
D20 is great for D&D, although, I am somewhat fond of 2nd edition D&D... THACO and the like, but that ship has long sailed....
I tried D20 SW, the RPGA living force campaign, and it felt as much as SW as Hello Kitty does. It just wasn't for me, which led me to dust off the old WEG stuff, and here i am.... |
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Said it once, said it again...
"I'm an 8th Level Jedi!"
and
"I shoot him with my +2 Heavy Blaster Pistol of Sith Slaying!"
Are just. Plain. Wrong  |
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Xynar
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Northwest Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray wrote: | | "I shoot him with my +2 Heavy Blaster Pistol of Sith Slaying!" |
If that was a true item, I would play it more often! 
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Xynar
The Great Adventurer |
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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well, it does exist per se. its +2 vs sith only 
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just glad that the good, ol' fashioned "Forceless Powers" will still be intact.
*Waves Hand* "You will take me to the nearest Starport." *Drops large credit chips into driver's hand*
"Ummmmmmmmmmmm, ya, we gotta go back anyway because... Because... Errrrrrrrrr... Let's go."
What happens when PCs get *TOO* rich! |
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Tupteq
Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Rzeszów, Poland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Scott, I could counter most of your explanations, but I think it's pointless (you know: "Anger leads to hate..."  ).
| scott2978 wrote: | | I don't like cross-genre game mechanics like Gurps and Masterbook. |
...and d20. So many nice RPGames was d20-ed (for example Fading Suns and Deadlands). How to play Deadlands without a deck of cards? I think that's the reason why I hate d20.
Possibly it works for D&D (I never had enough delf-denial to become convinced, I tried few times and each time I gave up after few sessions), but not for other settings (especially FS, DL and SW). |
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masque
Captain
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Tupteq wrote: |
Possibly it works for D&D (I never had enough delf-denial to become convinced, I tried few times and each time I gave up after few sessions), but not for other settings (especially FS, DL and SW). |
I always preferred MERP/Rolemaster for fantasy RPG's over D&D, back in the day, and I choose the newer HARP nowadays. Somewhat similar, but fixes almost all of the serious problems I felt that D&D had. Much more flexible.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. |
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PsiberDragon
Commander
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hey...
I LIKE the new d20 system. I mean, where else can I play a half-dragon/drow psionic jedi counselor, wielding a lightsaber, riding a Harley Davidson through the Old West??? 
/sarcasm
(for those w/out score sheets: that's D&D 3.5, Star Wars, D20 Modern, and Deadlands D20 references - and technically, with all the rules... it's possible)
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| possible... but man would the character ever suck Way too many lost levels. |
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Xynar
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Northwest Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| PsiberDragon wrote: | Hey...
I LIKE the new d20 system. I mean, where else can I play a half-dragon/drow psionic jedi counselor, wielding a lightsaber, riding a Harley Davidson through the Old West???
/sarcasm
(for those w/out score sheets: that's D&D 3.5, Star Wars, D20 Modern, and Deadlands D20 references - and technically, with all the rules... it's possible) |
And you're off to kill Diablo and then home to Everquest!
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Xynar
The Great Adventurer |
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masque
Captain
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PsiberDragon wrote: | Hey...
I LIKE the new d20 system. I mean, where else can I play a half-dragon/drow psionic jedi counselor, wielding a lightsaber, riding a Harley Davidson through the Old West???
/sarcasm
(for those w/out score sheets: that's D&D 3.5, Star Wars, D20 Modern, and Deadlands D20 references - and technically, with all the rules... it's possible) |
Well, hell. Just use GURPS, you can have all that without nerfing him. Sure, it'll be a several thousand point character game, but that's no problem if the GM allows it.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. |
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scott2978
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Tupteq wrote: | Scott, I could counter most of your explanations, but I think it's pointless (you know: "Anger leads to hate..." :)).
| scott2978 wrote: | | I don't like cross-genre game mechanics like Gurps and Masterbook. |
...and d20. So many nice RPGames was d20-ed (for example Fading Suns and Deadlands). How to play Deadlands without a deck of cards? I think that's the reason why I hate d20.
Possibly it works for D&D (I never had enough delf-denial to become convinced, I tried few times and each time I gave up after few sessions), but not for other settings (especially FS, DL and SW). |
I don't actually equate D&D with the D20 system. Sure they are essentially the same, but there are some important differences, like vitality points ect. |
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Tupteq
Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Rzeszów, Poland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| scott2978 wrote: |
I don't actually equate D&D with the D20 system. Sure they are essentially the same, but there are some important differences, like vitality points ect. |
Details. D&D is the icon of d20 system. The same is with WEG SW, it's not exactly any (Space, Fantasy, Modern) D6 system, there are differences too. But that are only details. |
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Maur
Cadet
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I don't actually equate D&D with the D20 system. Sure they are essentially the same, but there are some important differences, like vitality points ect. |
D&D is D20. Star Wars CR and RCR were based off D20 Modern.
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