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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As we are talking about physics - did you know that the Death Star would be deadly enough without his laser beam. Just hover above a planet and the tidal effects will wreak havoc over the planet. Even Star Destroyers have a similar effect. |
No. Neither of them have the mass for it. They don't even have the size to hold that kind of mass. The Star destroyer is a speck compared to a planet. The Death Star however is not large enough to create a noticeable tidal force on a planet as massive as earth. Hell, if the moon had water the Death Star wouldn't make a splash by simply orbiting too close.
Kamikaze the Death Star INTO the planet, than you'll at least make a dent. If the reactor goes critical you might have a chance at killing the planet.
Dont beleive me about the Death Star's size? Go to www.merzo.net
| Quote: | | And the spacetime is warped just everywhere, and if only by the ship itself. A hyperdrive therefore must work even in a mass shadow. |
There are two logical solutions to this. One, the ship is moved to hyperspace, so it is obviously not creating a mass shadow in hyperspace from realspace since it is in hyperspace. That is the obvious answer.
Two, the ship can indeed withstand a certain strength of mass shadows. In all observable cases, this has been any gravity field so weak the ships mass overshadows it, making the outside mass negligible.
The Kessel Run!
"You've never heard of the Falcon? It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs." ~Han Solo, Spoken as a freighter captain the day before the Battle of Yavin.
The Kessel Run is a smuggler trail/race depending on who you ask. Kessel is chock full of black holes an unusual distance from the galactic core.
In "Jedi Search", Kyp Durron makes this run blind in a transport. Despite the black holes being hundreds of thousands of kilometers away on every side, no sign of a single event horizon due to the fact that everything that can emit light is as all it's energy escapes upon final approach while gravity destroys it, the little transport walks a very fine, invisible path through the field of black holes. They knew they didn't have to get as close as the matter they could see being destroyed, than it would be too late.
They had no sensors to tell them where the gravity was, Kyp was using the force to pilot.
But it was a common fact that without good old instinctive astrogation, the ship was good for dead LONG before it even reached the visible portion of a black hole.
So what chances does a PC ship have?
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Robert
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So what chances does a PC ship have? |
The chances the gm gives them.
About the Death Star - i guess i mixed two sources up. Sorry!
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Gravititic Sensors. Part of every Hyperdrive.
It was a house rule with us, but Gravitic Sensors were part of the Passive Sensor Suite. Basically put, they detect gravity. Essential for when you need to know if you can do the jump to lightspeed or not.
Black Holes may not emit light, but they do cause a gravity well!
'Course, they can cause some funny incidents as well: "BY THE FORCE! It's gotta be ANOTHER DEATH STAR!!!" "Interdictor." "Oh... OK then. Not as big a deal." "With a couple of Victory Star Destroyers." "Well... Compared to a Death Star..." |
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Do we ever need to house rule for gravitic sensors? The above thing I talked about implied that normal star wars sensors include the ability to detect gravity. But their ship had no sensors, nothing whatsoever.
In any case, it's a good thing you guys came out and stated it, Ray.
Oh, and I realize I never answered the question of what happens to a ship if it hits a mass shadow.
If it does not drop from hyperspace before collision, it is destroyed.
What about conservation of motion, the crew not being turned into salsa?
Your changing dimensions, not literally going faster.
All there is to that.
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Robert
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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The end of hyperspace travel:
According to page 117, 2nd and revised:
| Quote: | | When a hyperdrive is deactivated, the ship automatically returns to realspace at the speed it had before the jump to lightspeed. |
I would suggest that it also keeps the vector of the movement before entry, not only the abstract speed.
Hyperdrive and black hole:
This table shows the difficulty modifier for a ship in the vicinity of a mass shadow produced by the gravity well of an interdictor cruiser. This simulates quite acceptable a parabel, just as if a heavy mass would be on the point of origin and warps the spacetime around it. The gravity well simulates mass shadows of large stellar bodies, like asteroids or planets in globe with 12 space diameter (WbC, p17). Only 6 spaces away from the center of such strong mass shadows is a ship able to jump into hyperspace.
What does this tell about the mass shadow of a black hole and the possibility of a hyperspace entry? As the "calculated" event horizon of the earth is 9 millimeter, and as the mass of the earth compressed on a radius of 6 space (surely more than 9 millimeters) is enough to prevent ships from jumping, the rules donīt allow a hyperspace entry within any event horizon.
Sadly a hyperdrive following the strict and mischievous WEG rules wonīt save us, and i agree to your conclusions of the black hole as hazard with no escape. But this tunneling might still be helpful.
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there is a "point of no return", just save yourself before you get there and you'll be fine.
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Boomer wrote: |
The Kessel Run!
"You've never heard of the Falcon? It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs." ~Han Solo, Spoken as a freighter captain the day before the Battle of Yavin.
The Kessel Run is a smuggler trail/race depending on who you ask. Kessel is chock full of black holes an unusual distance from the galactic core.
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To add to what Boomer said, the Kessel Run, a trial/race as he pointed out, is dependent on how close can a pilot get their ship to the blackhole cluster in the Kessel system without being drawn in. It's better to cut the cluster a wide berth when traveling through Kessel, but that takes more time. By getting closer to the cluster you shave time off the trip but greatly increase the odds of getting sucked in. That's courtesy of The Hutt Gambit and Rebel Dawn.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14213
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: |
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I am still not understanding what you are meaning, by 'tunneling'...
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DS-61-4
Cadet
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: |
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In ANH Han says 'she made the kessel run in less than.... parsecs...'
parsec = Parallax Second
it's a unit that measures distance and is equal to approx
31 x 10,000,000,000,000,000 km.
But you have to admit that if you diddn't know, it sounds lika a nice line.
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Boomer
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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No, that is exactly right. He made the run under 12 parsecs.
The run, instead of cutting around, skirts a safe path THROUGH the field of black holes. The closer you can get to the black holes and still not be dragged into them, the faster your ship obviously is. The Falcon, thanks to it's speed, has a much wider berth and easier time making this run than most ships.
Yes, he said parsecs, it is a measure of distance, and it is exactly what he meant.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I wish I could remember the exact source, but at least one of them also claims Solo's under-12-parsec run actually shaved some of the hull plating off the ship, due to its proximity to one or more of the black holes. |
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K_Feldspar
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to keep to contemporary physics as I understand it. So if the crew were past the event horizon of a black hole (assuming they exist) then the campaign would be over, or we would all create new characters.
That being said there is still plenty of drama before you get close to the event horizon. Don't get close to black holes all pilots in the galaxy know that!  However, I gave my PCs directions to build a device that ataches to their computer and does <tech> resulting in an answer to any question the computer to calculate. It's a one-use item so it's not too obnoxious.
If the crew got dangerously close to a black hole I would require an heroic+ roll to escape, or they could use their special item to have the computer figure it out for them. Assuming there was no Jedi around to astrogate. Which there's not.
As far as nothing escaping from a black hole though... I seem to remember something about Hawking radiation? Black holes evaporating after enough time passes? Is that right out now?
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Boomer
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, Stephen Hawking recently admitted being incorrect about several of his ideas regarding black holes. But he still maintains being correct about several other ideas.
The Hawking Radiation and evaporation of black holes he now claims is wrong.
And many black holes have been found since the 80s. There is indeed one at the center of our own and other galaxies, and there are black holes scattered in other areas of our galaxy.
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I am still not understanding what you are meaning, by 'tunneling'... |
The theory that a doorway that automatically saves people from things like black holes and allows FTL travel in the real universe.
I don't beleive it, but there are some who do. But I think that is a discussion for another time. Or right now if there are more questions, I think this is the right topic.
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Robert
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well quantum tunneling still seems to be truth. You could question that a whole ship can tunnel out of a black hole. In this galaxy i would accompany your guess, and also name the problems of high radiation and gravity bending your ship as problems for a safe escaping. But if you want to make up a situation for your campaign in a a galaxy far, far away, tunneling would allow escaping from black hole for your players. It doesnīt work automatically - it is by chance.
By the way, i didnīt find a source telling Hawking radiation is gone. Although you donīt like to backup your post, Boomer, i would be very interested. Cos why should it? It is based upon quite well-researched theories. Tunneling also doesnīt allow FTL travel. The particle has a chance to be somewhere else, where it normaly canīt be - but it doesnīt literaly travel from one side of the barrier to the other side.
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Last edited by Robert on Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:55 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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