Droids with sensors, and ambushes...

[Jedi Skyler]

Yeah, but Threepio's Cloud City experience isn't quite the best example. He didn't walk into an ambush; what he walked into was probably a restricted area, but one that was obviously populated at that moment by stormtroopers. Notice that they didn't IMMEDIATELY blast him apart; he had the chance to respond and try to talk his way out of the situation. Now, the fact that this didn't work is secondary. Once he saw stormtroopers, he did in fact recognize the threat and began to take measures to extricate himself from the situation.

So even a prissy protocol droid like C-3PO can learn what's dangerous, and try to escape it.

[scott2978]

Right but my point is that he didn't see it coming. Neither would anyone else unless they were EXPECTING IT! My point is that if Han had told goldenrod to "be on the lookout for imperial ambushes" he might have had a better shot at detecting it.

[garhkal]

[Robert]

I see it the same way. Droids are NPCs, just like a hired bodyguard. They might be more limited in their own decisions, but this can be countered by upgrading or a good programming routine. And they even have their own opinions.
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old...we grow old because we stop playing." G.B. Shaw

[Jedi Skyler]

[scott2978]

You're right of course skyler, but what the droid does after it recognizes a threat is not what the discussion is about. It's about the chances of the droid recognizing the threat in the first place. And I'm not talking about "knowing that stormtroopers are dangerous", I'm talking about knowing that there might be stormtroopers in the area and being actively looking for them as opposed to accidentally stumbling upon them, similar to being ambushed. Since C3PO had no reason to expect any stormtroopers in that room, he was surprised by them and didn't have a chance to report them. Had 3PO been warned about the possibility in advance, he might have been more cautious and spotted them before he got bushwacked. That's what makes the 3PO situation similar to our discussion, in both cases the droid is unaware of the possiblity of any danger, and so should be surprised by the "ambush" instead of spotting it before hand.

A good reason for this is that a droid (one smart enough to know what's dangerous or not) that has no reason to be on the lookout for an ambush and has not been told to be looking out for one, and who's masters don't seem to be concerned about one, should not just automatically detect the ambush just because it is equipped with fancy sensors. Remember that droids are characters too, and if you go granting these extrordinary powers to NPC droids, then player-character droids will expect to be able to auto-detect ambushes too.

That's one good reason that merely having a droid around shouldn't be a fool proof method of detecting ambushes. I realize this is somewhat different than the actual scenario that gakkhal described from his game, but before we had those facts it was hypothesized that having a sensor equipped droid in your land-speeder would provide protection against ambushes, and that's the point I'm trying to dispute.

[Robert]

I hope my players don´t read this discussion. Some relevant skillware, a simple mind and a good programming roll and you have a nasty item for the pcs. I don´t know how to argue against this nearly fool-proof detection machine. It it essentially the same as a motion detector in the hands of a pc - but it has more sensors, is on watch all time and gives alarm all by himself. I might circumvene this bad-@$$ droid with the following rule:

If a group is being ambushed, take the highest perception available. Add the command bonus pip for additional group members (like +1 for 2 members, +2 for 4 members and so on). Then add +1 pip for every additional and different sensor equipment that is currently online - whether on the npc droid, on a pc droid or in the hands of a player - and might be helpful in this situation. Then roll.

What do you think?
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old...we grow old because we stop playing." G.B. Shaw

[garhkal]

Robert, and Scott, thanks for the back up and understanding of what i am trying to get at...

[Akari]

I personally try not to build adventure by the idea "here the PC's are ambushed, get overwhelmed, then captured and have to break out" or something like that. In my opinion this restricts the free will of the players.

I start by thinking "what is the regular chain of events if nobody interferes?" Its a lot more work though, but generally its just common sense. The PC's might still be ambushed and put into prison but I don't really plan for it. If they know how to prevent an ambush, they will; be it with sensor-equipped droids, repulsor drone surveilance or superior stealth abilities. If I don't want them to do this for some reason, I like to play with planet anomalies that restrict the use of some of their equipment, but this has to be used sparingly because players tend to react allergically when their toys are taken away...

[TarlSS]

Most military scouts, say scout troopers or Specforce commandos, would be trained in the art of avoiding sensor sweeps, and would take that into account when setting up an ambush. Military scouts face sensors as their primary opposition; it's the first thing they have to get past. I would oppose their sneak rolls with Sensor Operations. If you really want to get whorey about it, you could do opposed Sensor Operations rolls instead.

I say Sneak vs Sensor Operations, because in every Star Wars movie, book and game it's usually taken as a given that the character's actions in sneaking into a compound also accounts for the enemy sensors. If you want, you could give the sensor operator bonuses- But really, the advantage of sensors is their uncanny range and ability to gain information from miles away. In close situations, I would allow a sensor operator to use Sensor operations instead of perception checks to detect enemies.

If the Imperials or whoever control the area, it's likely the local sensor operator will actively try to jam or deceive enemy sensors.

Of course, your common street thugs would not be trained in this, and probably not think about avoiding sensor sweeps.

[garhkal]

[Vartax]

Let's look at the first example of an ambush from episode 4. R2D2 picks up the tuskan raiders (who have little tech). Now if at this point it was just Luke and R2 would R2 have mentioned the movements from the east? I don't think so. But, since he perceived a threat to his friend 3PO, he mentioned it. Droids may pick stuff up all the time and just not say anything, or not classify it as a threat. The loyalty that a droid has says much to answer the question: "will I let them know, or not"?

[Robert]

[scott2978]

[Robert]

Ennervating the players with unnecessary alarms is a good way, but the amount of over/underachievement would at least get lower if the droid is equipped with state-of-the-art skillware. But still this way of dealing with the problem is a good idea. I think the "wish" solution (known from ad&d) is very good. Let the player programming the robot write down a sentence with, lets say, up to his programming roll words, giving him a feeling of control. Only under this circumstances the droid will 1. scan and 2. sound alarm. And go by the letter - because he only has a simple or no personality. If he has a more advanced personality, you can go by your decision .
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old...we grow old because we stop playing." G.B. Shaw