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JohnLydiaParker
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Joined: 13 May 2024
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 5:17 pm Post subject: Martial arts skill |
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I'm completely unable to find the "base" version of the Martial Arts skill, so a few rules questions. Can you the skill for a brawling parry? If it can, does it have the normal parrying weapons unarmed penalties, or different ones? Is it an advanced skill? And what's "normal" damage for an unarmed attack, both using and not using Martial Arts?
Thanks. 
ADMIN EDIT: The game's official martial arts "skill" |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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The base version of Martial Arts can be found in Rules of Engagement, toward the back.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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JohnLydiaParker
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Joined: 13 May 2024
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The base version of Martial Arts can be found in Rules of Engagement, toward the back. |
I checked, and I'm not the first person on this forum to ask this, and be given the same answer, and I don't mean to be rude, simply blunt, but looking at the version of Rules of Engagement on the D6 Holocron - it does not. The base skill simply isn't there. It contains one multi-page block of optional custom Marital Arts techniques, and a smaller box of multiple optional rules. There are no non-optional rules. Screencap from the D6 Holocron .pdf:
The first line says exactly that. As for where it's been "for a long time," it's not in REUP, it's not in the initial second edition, and it's not in the first edition. So what does contain the base skill, with something other then optional rules? It's not this book, Rules of Engagement. Is there more then one edition of the book? Are we both looking at the same book? That would explain it. Or is the actual non-optional rule somewhere else?
Which of these rules are considered "standard RAW" these days? I've got no idea. Again, I don't mean to be rude, blunt perhaps. But I think the fact that it's not in Rules of Engagement needs to be more widely known. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:08 am Post subject: |
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As far as I’m aware, there has never been an officially defined Martial Arts skill beyond Brawling Combat. Some character stats may have included it, but early character stats occasionally included skills without any official description (see Adar Tallon’s Starship Tactics). The write-up in RoE is the first instance I recall where actual rules for Martial Arts were actually spelled out.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ebertran
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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No rule book had a defined Martial Arts skill.
this is:
1. an editing error in rules of engagement.
2. the author perhaps confusing his long term house rules with official rules. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't one of the other source books show teras kai, earlier than rules of engagement??
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Didn't one of the other source books show teras kai, earlier than rules of engagement?? |
That was in Shadows of the Empire. There was also the Noghri martial arts in the Thrawn trilogy SBs, but never a truly general martial arts skill.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Interesting. I wonder, if that was just an oversight?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Interesting. I wonder, if that was just an oversight? |
1E was simplistic enough that maybe they figured Brawling and Brawling Parry were enough.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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pakman
Commander
Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:29 am Post subject: |
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These are great questions - and all point to why there are so many variations in house rules for martial arts.
I myself had been working on a version for my game - so had been chasing some of the same research.
Check out some of the various martial arts threads in the house rules section.
What I did with your specific questions;
Parry.
I merged the other combat skills (attack and parry) into one - so yes, I use only one for Brawling and Martial arts. Whatever you do, I would keep it consistent.
Unarmed penalty;
If they take the specialization martial arts under brawling, they are no longer considered unarmed.
Advanced Skill.
I created an advanced melee skill and put my more detailed martial arts abilities under that. This is a common house rule interpretation of the official material.
Damage
I believe the official damage is STR only.
I give STR+1D once they have the specialization, and some of the things under the advanced skill increase that.
My personal martial arts house rules are almost done - and will be posted later - but there are a few others in the house rules section.
best of luck in your game.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I did the “merge Brawling and Brawling Parry” thing initially, but the more I got into the details of varying types of martial arts, the more it made sense to keep them separate. Having separate skills makes it easier to differentiate between offensive and defensive styles, by placing more dice in one at the expense of the other. Aikido, for example, would have the majority of its dice in Brawling Parry and Melee Parry, with relatively little dice in Brawling itself.
I would also suggest that specializing in Martial Arts shouldn’t on its own count the character as Armed for the purposes of Melee defense. It’s still harder to defend against armed attacks even with training, but the training (represented by the easier skill advancement in Specialization) does give you more dice with which to work when defending.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Interesting. I wonder, if that was just an oversight? |
1E was simplistic enough that maybe they figured Brawling and Brawling Parry were enough. |
Since martial arts are different though, why would they have figured that out.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I would also suggest that specializing in Martial Arts shouldn’t on its own count the character as Armed for the purposes of Melee defense. It’s still harder to defend against armed attacks even with training, but the training (represented by the easier skill advancement in Specialization) does give you more dice with which to work when defending. |
I could see that for 'generic' martial arts. BUT certain ones imo, DO teach you to fight, vs armed folks.
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raithyn
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Joined: 24 Jun 2023
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I did the “merge Brawling and Brawling Parry” thing initially, but the more I got into the details of varying types of martial arts, the more it made sense to keep them separate. Having separate skills makes it easier to differentiate between offensive and defensive styles, by placing more dice in one at the expense of the other. Aikido, for example, would have the majority of its dice in Brawling Parry and Melee Parry, with relatively little dice in Brawling itself. |
I certainly understand the logic of this from a simulationist viewpoint. Does combining brawling and brawling parry cause any other gameplay issues or does MAP help balance out when someone dumps dice into the one skill? I've noticed that since the lightsaber skill doubles as the parry skill, it can feel like other weapons are penalized. I've been trying to decide if I should try adding lightsaber parry or remove melee parry and brawling parry. |
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JohnLydiaParker
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Joined: 13 May 2024
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. Seems there isn't a universal "official" version. |
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pakman
Commander
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnLydiaParker wrote: | | Thanks. Seems there isn't a universal "official" version. |
Well....yeah. From a certain point of view. 
| CRMcNeill wrote: | I did the “merge Brawling and Brawling Parry” thing initially, but the more I got into the details of varying types of martial arts, the more it made sense to keep them separate. Having separate skills makes it easier to differentiate between offensive and defensive styles, by placing more dice in one at the expense of the other. Aikido, for example, would have the majority of its dice in Brawling Parry and Melee Parry, with relatively little dice in Brawling itself.
does give you more dice with which to work when defending. |
I agree with this reasoning - was kind of thinking the same thing - but I also wanted to merge the skills...
So after a lot of head scratching, I just made some of the different combat techniques have a bonus to either offense, or defense (or whatever) and characters had to choose a type of combat technique they were using each round.
My lightsaber forms used the exact same mechanic (changing forms at the beginning of the round - and different forms giving different benefits) to keep them consistent.
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