Problems with General Grevious lightsaber skill?

[worfbacca]

Anyone else have problems with General Grevious lightsaber skill in some fan made sourcebooks .. 14-20D. This is because of how the lightsaber combat force power favors force users so when we get someone in the movies who kills Jedi it translates to the RPG system as a crazy high value.. maybe this means the lightsaber combat power has quirks that need to be resolved.
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"That was left handed!"

[DougRed4]

I've thought it was a problem for a long time (Lightsaber Combat) and we long ago eliminated it from our game (along with Combat Sense), but then I also made some changes to the ways lightsabers work, too.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[KageRyu]

The bigger issue with fan-mad stats for General Grievous is not just his outrageous lightsaber skill, it is his complete lack of force skills. Right in the movie, at the outset of the confrontation with Obi Wan he announces that Dooku has trained him in the Jedi arts. Therefore, Grievous should at the very least have the two skills necessary for the Lightsaber combat, and the Lightsaber Combat power. Now judging by the battle, these would not be very high as Obi-Wan very quickly deprives him of several hands and sabers.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

Maybe trained in the arts, meant IN USE OF lightsabers? Not actual force powers, since he was practically ALL Droid by then.. So therefore couldn't Access the force?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[KageRyu]

[Mamatried]

I can see the reasoning behind the extrme skill, I may not agree with the numbers though.

But what are we talking about here, a more or less RAW or a more balanced Fan Write up?

I have seen a lot of fan based suppliments, that I am sure a lot of gaming groups use, like the advenutre journals, and more and in some we have the force dice system and lightsaber combat forms, and given the requitemnt of these I can see high ranges.

However no matter the skill he will not be aboe to deal more than 5D pr hit.
Any jedi can add to this with powers.

Now what I would rate grievous skill as, actually high, in the 10D+ range but not as high as 13D.....however he does have what is it, 4 at once, and I would regardless of his four arms actually give him a -1D to actually hit with them but a +2D to most blocks

so I would give him 10-12D and +2D to block and -1D to attack, due to the 4 whiling sabers and not the precises actual combat strikes

[Whill]

[KageRyu]

[DB 2.0]

If you make him "Quad-Dexterous" he can do four actions at their full dice code before taking a multi action dice reduction, and you can go less hog wild on Lightsaber skill and Lightsaber Advanced skills.

[KageRyu]

[pakman]

[Mamatried]

I think we have to look at several factors, first Griveous was meant to be a "boss" and while being very skilled, he is not force sensitive, he can not "do" stuff with his lightsabers other than strike and swirl.

One issue is the numbers, the extrmely high dice in the skills, and to this I would say that most of the write ups we have that are fan based (though mostly well within RAW and balanced enough) we have the issue of how difficult things are, and the difficulty tables in the books.

These are meant for players more so than NPCs and as such they are inflated..

What I mean is that most NPCs or rather the common folk of the galaxy live their lives fully and work in jobs where a palyer would normally have to roll against difficuties much higher than what a common mook will be able to roll, yet they actually do succeed, they manage to drie their taxi, to avoid the crash, they can repair it somewhat, and such.....they even frequently thoughout life manage quite complex and difficult taks with a soemwhat level of ease...


so how hard is it to go full speed on the swoo and make that 90 degree turn?
I would say just as hard or easy as for the non player common unstatted mook commoner thar does this many times thtough their life.

the rolls for agriculture to see if you mamage you harvest, as a player, the numbers rolled so much higher than any commoner out there....yet they manage.

so I belive much of the Dice numbers can easily be lowered on just about every NPC write up for the above reasons.


If we look to templates for guidance we see a fully tranied and qualified, but freshly graduated military fighter pilot (without adding extra skill points to the piloting skills) is at 4D this is consider being a professional...

now I would argue that outside combat this person would rarely ever have to roll to do any piloting, espcially compared to the many unstatted where it is unrasnobale that everyman is a professional pilot, also flies around with no diffulty.

so how hard should things be and is this the issue with thw 11, 12 13 and higher Dice, do we need them is it that hard, should it be?


If a 2D Piloting common galacitc citicen can have a transport and get around with little difficulty then should a tranied academy educated polot have to roll to see if he can take off of manage to land?

so to me the numbers are out of proprtions becuse GMs and Players alike deem tasks more difficult than what they are.

This in turn forces more and more skill point to be allocated....


I would day that on the Tier 1 military units, like royal guarsd we should not have mufh more than 8D or 9D at the most, including any speciality

however a common 5D or 4D pilot should be abble to pilot most of the time without rolling at all.

I base this on a rule from 3.5 D&D which made a lot of sense. it was about the riding skill, and how it was described.

Everyone can ride, and everyone rides every day, no roll is need to mount and rinde the hosre from a to be, not even if galloping at speed, to a certain level of course.

Only when needing to jump a fense or a little creek, or when you have to dodge a flying arrow while in the saddle etc etc, only then do you roll vs the skill.

this means basically that you alsmost never use the skill, and becuse you are in fact skilled you actually automatically succeed in most tasks you do regadless of skill used.

I do not feel that I roll anything at all to take the car to my daily drive to work....I just drive and I automatically succeed, however if I am chased and have to begin evasive driving or I speed up and swirl in and out of traffic then of course I would have to roll if it was a game.

so I belive all of this is fue to too many rolls for too many things prompting too many skill points to be needed.

I am sure that reducing most of the difficultues to a more realistic level would also reduce the need to have any character with any skill much above 8D or 9D after a long time being expert in the skill

[KageRyu]

@Mamatried
There are just so many factual errors in this post and misunderstanding once again of skills and die codes that I just give up. Several things already discussed at length in other threads about skill use and difficulty and how an average "mook: can have a good die code in their professional skill...etc..

As to Grievous being force sensitive, that is very much up for debate as it is stated very clearly in the film by Grievous that Dooku trained him in the Jedi arts.

With that I'm out. Repetition of topics really just drags me down.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[Mamatried]

[KageRyu]

@Mamatried,
I wanted to just let it be, but this needs addressed clearly and directly.
First:
Most of your previous post I replied to, and your newest post, have nothing to do with the topic or question raised directly. Instead, the majority of it is you once again railing on difficulty numbers and the D6 system skills and what Die Codes mean that it seems clear to me you do not completely understand - and it is discussions that have been had in numerous other threads already. You really need to not only familiarize yourself with the skill system in more depth, but the Universal Standards Die Code Equivalency in D6 as you do not seem to understand not only what a competent and professional Die Code level is, but what difficulties are appropriate for various relative mundane tasks.