When to role play over Roll play??

[garhkal]

When do you let the dice decide the outcome of an action in which 'talking' is involved, when the player has a bad mumble day..

EG Slick the silver tongued con man, rolls his 13d in con and gets a 50 (or so), but when i say that was a damn good roll, it make the imperial very open to your speech, and he then babbles incoherently. Would it still work? Or does the roll only help out the role??


What about the reverse, the player makes a great speech, but rolls crappy...
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[netjedi]

I would make a counter roll and provide modifiers based on both the roll and the speech.
For example Bron the smiling smuggler is trying to con the local customs agent into not charging and fining him for not having the proper weapons permits.

good roll bad speech:
Bron came up with a very credible story about the reason behind having the heavy weaponson his ship but did not sound very confident in his presentation.

Bron rolls his 5D con skill and gets a 17. The customs agent rolls a counter roll using his perception of 2D+2 but since Brons delivery was not the best he gets a +5 to his roll getting a 15.

Good speech bad roll:
Bron spoke very eloquently about the troubles the space lanes in the outer rim present to the small tramp freighter and lays out stories of pirates attacking even going so far as to pointing carbon scoring on the hull as he elaborates on his last encounter just a few days ago, when he barely escaped a pirate attack.

Bron rolls his 5D con skill and gets an 11. The customs agent rolls a counter roll using his perception of 2D+2 but since Bron was amazing at spinning the tale of danger he gets a modifier of -3 to his roll getting a 5.

That is the way I handle those situations. hope it helps.
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Wanted Poster

[KageRyu]

I am in complete agreement with netjedi. You should always Role play over Roll play. Granted the skills are there to allow players not as silver tongued as other succede, so there is a bit of GM's discretion on how to apply it. I ten to use the following guidelines:
• If the player at least gives me good reasoning, and intent, even if he himself does not speak it well, I assume his character is more fluent in communication when posessing a high skill.
• On almost all of the skills that influence NPCs (Con, Bargain, Command, etc...) I encourage role playing, and try to act out the scene, complete with the NPCs responses (based of course on their roll;) ).
• If a player simply says "I lie to them" and wont even put in the effort to tell me the most basics, because he has a 13D or so, I add extremely high modifiers, as obviously his character isn't really putting in effort either (as GMs we do have to judge the characters actions, feelings, and efforts by the player).
• I often modify difficulty levels, for better or worse, based on what exactly the players say, and do, and how plausible it seems. Of course, having evidence that would support a Lie, Con, or bargain attempt (even if not truly evidence of the case, just appropriate or believable) also helps reduce difficulties.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

Would that not 'reward' people who are naturally glib, when their characters are not?
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[Esjs]

I would give weight to the stronger of the two components.

If a player gives a good speech, that should give major bonuses to the roll.

If the player is not so good with the speeches, but his or her character has high "charisma" (I know it's not a WEG term, but it's what fits here), then the roll should help the speech. The GM could help out by filling in the words that need to be said to fit the roll.

From personal experience, I've always hated that I was punished for what I said, when I think my character could have come up with something better.
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"Esjs" == "Jess"

[KageRyu]

[Argamoth]

I'd give beginners a brake, but still push them to improve their eloquence when on the fly. A sucessful roll, and the PC will succed, but with a sucessful role, things go better than usual.

[KageRyu]

Yes, but I feel when a player puts no effort at all into the actual game it detracts from the overall game. So, when I get players who wont even give me something to work with, and instead just say things like "does it matter I have 10D con?" and roll, I tend to reflect their poor role playing by increasing difficulty. IMHO if you just want to blast badguys and be led by the nose through a game, stay home and play doom or quake or the latest Final Fantasy. A Role Playing Game with friends is about fun and interaction.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[Volar the Healer]

I allow roll playing when the character can do something the player cannot; such as starship repair. Everything else I insist upon role playing out. After all, that is the point of the game.
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[Soniv]

I'm going to have to agree with KageRyu here. While the person may not need to be the best con man on the planet, he should at least try to convey the general idea of what his character will do. For instance, "I'm going to tell him that my ship got damaged by a pirate attack." would be acceptable to me. But not just "I'm going to lie about it." It's a fine line, but the general idea is to have an idea. Not anything fancy, just a slight description of the bluff used.

[KageRyu]

[Sabre]

I'm of the opinion that any roleplaying done in conjunction with a roll can only provide a bonus to the roll. It's rare to see a player willing to act out their speech, and even more rare for the player to be actually convincing about it. I also have to bear in mind that how convincing I find the speech is highly subjective.

The dice aren't the whole story, but it's the skill of the character and not the player that the die code reflects.

[Chandra Mindarass]

We play out almost everything. The players and I have very dense and deep characters and everything else would be an insult to the work we had. Idiotic local authorities, scheming villains, failed heros....they all cast no shadow, if you don't play with them. I should add, that 10+ hour games are a common thing with my group.
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[Chandra Mindarass]

Ok, you could criticize, that using this method a character with poor Perception and/or Con, Bargain,....gains a LOT by playing it out, but of course that's a problem of the player, who wants to earn CPs.
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[KageRyu]