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Fallon Kell Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: I could use advice from some more experienced GMs... |
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So, I'm wondering about how many CPs to award my player for an episode he just completed. It was set up to be a kind of longish mission with two short space combats and a minor ground fight. It was supposed to end with an epic space battle leading into a ground war. Due to plot complications and unexpected player decisions (and maybe a little bit of bad planning on my part) the battle at the end turned out huge. I wrote it up, fleshed out and novel-like, and it came to like 7,900 words. 16 pages on M$ Word.
There were several stages of combat and he was dodging snipers and fighting royal guard captains almost the whole way. And it was in the middle of a hurricane. In a coastal city, with concussion missile bombardment going on offshore. This was just his 2nd mission, and I'm rather proud of the fact he finished it without much help and only a wound.
So about how many CPs should I award for completing a long, difficult mission? I'm awarding points for separate minor objectives he accomplished throughout, and for some of the more impressive kills he scored. Also bear in mind his actual roleplaying skills are... undeveloped. He doesn't get many points for staying in character or being creative.
Any more experienced GMs willing to help out? _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
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Guardian_A Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 1654 Location: South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:10 am Post subject: |
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A lot of it depends on if its a new character or not. If its a new character, I always try to award enough at the end of our first story arc that a couple of improvements can be made to the character. On the other hand, if its an established character, I wouldn t feel the need to be so generous. Just be careful not to over do it. Just because the session ran a little long, dosnt mean the character needs a bunch of extra points to make up for it.
With that said. I have a checklist of reasons to award Character Points to simplify things and help keep things consistant:
Every Session:
1 pt = Automatic: Each player gets one point at the end of each chapter.
1 pt = Learning Curve: If the player can tell you something they learned during the course of the night. This should be something the PLAYER learned and not something the CHARACTER learned.
1pt = Roleplaying: If the player carried out the roll of the character well.
1pt = Heroism: On rare occasion, characters do something exceptionally heroic. Sometimes great and selfless deeds are their own reward.
1pt = Unexpected Approach: Whenever a character uses a skill or force power in a unique or unexpected way. Example: A had a player once who used Telekinesis to manipulate his own legs so it appeared that he was walking. Example 2: I had another character that used his Jetpack skill to use his Jetpack as a projectile weapon.
End of Story:
1pt = Moment of briliance: One or more character came up with a brilliant plan or spontanious strategy that allowed the group to succed when it likely would have failed otherwise.
1pt = Completion of Story
1 pt = Success: The characters accomplished all, or at least most of their goals during the story.
I usually go down this list with my players at the end of each session. With the exception of the Automatic point, I usually make them justify every point I give them. This not only gets the players to think about their actions during the session, but it gets them thinking forward about how they plan to spend their points or earn extra points in the future.
If you feel that you are giving too many experience points, then drop the Automatic point each session. If you feel you arent giving enough points, then allow your players to earn more than one point for each item.
I know a couple of other GMs that use the above system, and we have all found it to be an involved and consistant system for awarding CPs.
Hope that helps. |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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With rare exceptions, I try to award enough points so that the PC ends up with more CPs after the adventure than they had before the adventure. That tends to self correct for long, active adventures since they tend to burn through the CPs.
Short adventures, which for our group means they finish in about 4-8 hours of play time, typically are around 5 CPs with typically a net award of about 3 CPs. Adventures of around 10 hours or so tend to be about 10 CP awards or typically a net award of about 5 CPs. Long term over 10 years and 60+ multi-session scenarios we probably average about 1 CP per hour of play time. Note - that isn't how we calculate the awards, but that tends to be how it averages out long term.
Also, we do occassionally provide directed increases - especially for characters using a new skill. For example if a scenario featured a lot of Bantha riding and this was a new skill for the PCs, then the GM might decide to award an increase for beast riding or perhaps just for the specialization beast riding: Bantha. This allows the GM to help characters diversify skills and also allows those skills to reflect activitiy in the scenario. |
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Guardian_A Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 1654 Location: South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | Also, we do occassionally provide directed increases - especially for characters using a new skill. For example if a scenario featured a lot of Bantha riding and this was a new skill for the PCs, then the GM might decide to award an increase for beast riding or perhaps just for the specialization beast riding: Bantha. This allows the GM to help characters diversify skills and also allows those skills to reflect activitiy in the scenario. |
I've done that kind of thing in the past as well. However, when I give that kind of award, I tend to be a lot less forthcoming with CPs at the end of the night. |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Guardian_A wrote: | I've done that kind of thing in the past as well. However, when I give that kind of award, I tend to be a lot less forthcoming with CPs at the end of the night. | That makes sense though I would discount directed awards as the player doesn't have the flexibility of a regular CP award. To my mind, it's all part of the reward (as are returning or granting new FPs). |
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Guardian_A Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 1654 Location: South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | Guardian_A wrote: | I've done that kind of thing in the past as well. However, when I give that kind of award, I tend to be a lot less forthcoming with CPs at the end of the night. | That makes sense though I would discount directed awards as the player doesn't have the flexibility of a regular CP award. To my mind, it's all part of the reward (as are returning or granting new FPs). |
I understand, and its not that I plan to short them their award at the end of the night, but when I give out a +1 to a skill during play, the players usually need to give me a better reason for the CPs I hand out at the end of the night. Sometimes this leaves them short a point at the end of the night, sometimes it dosnt. The subject came up back when I started my original campaign, we all had a nice long talk about it and we decided that this approach was fair. Its been something of a house rule ever sense. To be honest, my players would rather have the skill point than the CP more often than not anyway. |
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Praxian Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Posts: 190
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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On average I give out 5 to 7 character points (core) and then award 1 more character point for the following questions:
+1 CP: What did your character learn?
+1 CP: What was your favorite scene?
+1 CP: What did you like (that I as a GM did)?
+1 CP: What would you like to see more / less of (that I as a GM can control)?
So, on average on a -very- good night people can get around 11 CP's, and average around 9.
If there was a lot of side-tracking going on in game, and not very much gets done, I usually award less core CP's. Think the least I awarded once was 2 core CP's and then added in my questions (so they still got 6, but just barely as they almost couldn't answer the questions - lol). |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14215 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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How long was the session?
I usually go with a 7cp/4hr session breakdown.
Quote: | Also, we do occassionally provide directed increases - especially for characters using a new skill. For example if a scenario featured a lot of Bantha riding and this was a new skill for the PCs, then the GM might decide to award an increase for beast riding or perhaps just for the specialization beast riding: Bantha. This allows the GM to help characters diversify skills and also allows those skills to reflect activitiy in the scenario. |
I may include learning a new skill as part of the module/gaming session, but not as a freebie.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | I may include learning a new skill as part of the module/gaming session, but not as a freebie.. | I might, but then I am not as generous with the CPs as you are. |
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Guardian_A Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 1654 Location: South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at what all of you give for CP, I'm starting to feel like I've been greedy all this time. Promise that no one is going to tell my players! |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14215 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Since i have been involved with the sparks gaming group, 7cp per module is a standard we go by. Since each module is 3:45 long, that gives almost 2cp/hr. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Guardian_A wrote: | Looking at what all of you give for CP, I'm starting to feel like I've been greedy all this time. Promise that no one is going to tell my players! | No problem.
Really the CP awards should vary based on the style of play you want and the rewards you give will affect the style of play (it's a feedback loop). I want to allow the PCs to advance their skills, but not to advance them too quickly. I also like the PCs doing heroic, space opera-ey things, so if they use a lot of CPs to do exciting, fun stuff I tend to give them more CPs. If they are overly cautious and miserly with their CP expenditure, I tend to give fewer CPs - not so much as a penalty but to limit how fast they increase their skills.
The Star Wars D6 system seems (to me) to operate best in what I see as a low to mid-power range. To me mid-range for Jedi is what I think of as low and mid level Jedi Knights, e.g. best force skills in the 5D-7D range. For non Jedi or non-Jedi skills mid range is about 5D-9D. Once skills get up to around 10D or more, I think the system is a bit unwieldy and less fun. In part this is just because there are too many dice to roll.
I want to keep the PCs in the low to mid range for most of play. Since I always anticipate running long campaigns - we played Star Wars about 30 times a year in roughly 10 hour sessions for 10 years. If I gave out a lot of CPs people would either be slapping around Palpatine and Vader and outflying Solo or they would have had to repeatedly start over with new characters. Since neither choice appealed to me, I went with a slower CP award rate (on average about half what garhkal's Sparks group awards).
On the other hand, if I thought of Star Wars as more of a short term game, I would not mind bigger awards. Here is a contrasting example. We have played Call of Cthulhu for a longer period (many characters date back to the early eighties), though not as regularly. I don't worry much about those characters getting too highly skilled because (1) they can never rival Cthulhu in power, (2) their skills top out at 100% which does not mean auto success, and (3) they are always at risk of sudden death or insanity and, the way we play, the risk is corespeondingly greater than it is in Star Wars. So the rewards and awards should be designed to foster the style of play that you want. |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14215 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Fastest i have seen (as a player) was a gm who had a min 12cp for a 4 hr session), PLUS rp awards, and on the spot 'gimmies' for creative play/fun sayings etc..
The 9 sessions i was with him (he transfered), our pcs gained an average of 104cp.
The slowest was about 1cp/1.5 hrs... _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Raven Redstar Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 Posts: 2648 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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In my games that I've recently run, I give at least enough to counteract any CP expenditures during the course of the adventure, and then at a minimum 4-5 for some degree of safe skill progression. |
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Guardian_A Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 1654 Location: South Dakota, USA
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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The awards I give are closer to the "Slowest" you have seen. However, its not uncommon for me to give out a +1 when I feel its justified. Also, I often give one CP for every week of "Down Time" for the characters. For example: Travel time between Alderan and Gamorr is just over 7 days and will net the characters one CP, Coruscant to Tatooine is just over 22 days and will ned the players three CP. After all, just because there isnt a lot going on in game, that dosnt mean the characters are completely idle. On the other hand, I always round down, so a lot of trips dont gain the characters anything. |
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