Metagaming and possible punishment???

[garhkal]

Ok. Say you are gming starwars at a con (which i do a lot).

The first day, you premier a new game module/adventure/session (how ever you look at them), and part of the module has the party facing off against a bureaucratic imperial who is not bluffable/conable/bribeable.... they DO try and get into hot water (arrested).
2 tables over, someone is listening in, cause they know they are playing that module later on in the con. Then they show up, and use what they heard to influence their character's actions, eg don';t try to bribe or con their way out, when they have shown that is their normal reaction in that type of situation..

First off, would you let it slide?
If not, would you punish them in any way (loss of CP or otherwise) for trying that?
Would you have the INGAME punishments be more severe???
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Ray]

Three words: Stick. Of. Pain.

[Boomer]

I use a hammer. I ask players to put their hand on the table, and I hit the hand. The key is to hit very hard, with the hammer.

In this situation, it depends on the player's attitude, really. Personally, I feel this kind of gaming should be more compartmentalized so that accidental overhearing does not occur. Some people have no idea how to keep OOC information OOC and use everything they hear to their advantage, wether they hear it or not. You just can't be sure if they meant to hear it or if they just suck at keeping OOC info OOC.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Darius]

I agree with Boomer. Some players cant keep it out of character. Have words with the venue or if youre gonna run the same scenario more than once, change a few things to keep it interesting.
_________________
oops - i didnt mean to make it go off

[Vanion]

For the first offense, I give a stout warning.

If they repeat, I'd punish them ingame somehow... ie: have the officer "overhear" a comment about bribery, which is pretty much as bad as offering the bribe.

I know a lot of people penalize by subtracting CPs, but I'd only use that as a last resort, myself. Even still, I look at that as a perfectly legit penalty.
_________________
"Life is not measured in years, but by deeds"

[Jedi Skyler]

I like Vanion's take on it. If you punish them ingame, but the players still manage to come out on top- especially when the bribery/con angle is taken out of the equation, then as long as they weren't a bunch of sniveling whiners, I'd say they'd earned their CPs.

If they need a wheel of cheese to go with the whining, however, I'd move my reaction to more like Ray.

Stick.

Of.

PAIN!!!!!

[gbjazzman]

I dunno. I have a d20 the size of a golf ball that I use if Metagaming gets bad.

[garhkal]

Another decent thread to resurrect for our new folk..

So for those newer people, what do YOU consider metagaming?
When it 'goes above a set level' (or at all) what do you come up with to reign it in? What punishments befall those who continually do it?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[DougRed4]

I've never really given punishments, per se, for metagaming. I simply don't allow it.

In other words:

Player: My character will do X.

GM (me): You're using OOC knowledge, which is something your character has no way of knowing. You'll simply need to do/say something else.
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[griff]

I always found it hard to stop metagaiming. The most common was a player's knowledge of a skill was greater than that of their character, and tried to get a skill bonus for their knowledge. I then explained that their character was able to repair a starship and they couldn't even change the oil in their car, "should I penalize your character for something that you don't know?" They never tried that again.

[garhkal]

That's a great way to counter them griff. 8)
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[vanir]

I usually find metagamers are prone to RP tantrums, weird how those two contrasts seem to walk hand in hand.
If they won't be reasoned with about OOC/PC differences they simply lose all the CP awards for good RP of their PC. Because these have proven to contribute to fun gaming sessions and player involvement, RP awards in CP can as much as double the regular CP awards for the adventure.
ie. I use the carrot not the stick, to keep arguments off the table until the end of the session. If the player messes up the gameplay along the way, I'll shut him down quick, but I'm pretty summary, I don't start arguing with a player until I'm going to kick them off the table anyway, or force a time out for the session.


Run of the mill "domestic" metagamers usually get the idea when, at the end of an adventure in which you gave them all the rope they wanted to hang themselves with their own gaming style, they start to feel pretty strange when all the other PCs get something like 25CP to their 12 and you can show them an itemized list of CP awards.
These would include things like "PC1 smuggler: 2CP RP award for hilarious, totally in-character one-liners when he messed up rolls".
See, metagamers just don't RP that way and their PC isn't as much fun for other players. It's almost impossible for them to argue they deserve the RP CP awards that were given to people who messed up rolls, but RP'd really well. Metagamers always argue so their rolls never fail no matter how low. Let them, let them kill their own fun, they do get it in the end...and walk off in a huff, but learn a lesson.

[griff]

The worst time in dealing with my groups metagamer, was when it was his turn to be the GM. This is when the group would pull out our "throw away characters" because someone was going to die. My first time as one of his players, I was playing a scout character who liked sleeping in trees outdoors. That just bugged him. So durning the first twenty minutes of the game, me sleeping in the tree, the first encounter of the session we were attack by some insectoid alien he found in a suppliment and used it to attack our camp. The first roll of the game was damage to me, plus the fall and another damage roll, dead scout. That encounter seemed to be only there to attack me. We never see those aliens again, and the story takes a tangent to a space station. This wasn't the last character in the group to go that night. And in the Star Wars tradition all characters are cremated. We roll up the character sheet put it on the barbeque, and put a match to them. Also he would play the antagonist known things about the PCs that was unreasonable for the NPC to know. His games were just s meat grinder.
_________________
"EXECUTE ORDER 67. Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like order 67..... No, wait. Yes, yes it does. EXECUTE ORDER 68" Palpatine's last moments - robot chicken.

[Whill]

When necessary I have no qualms in flat-out saying, "No, you're character wouldn't know that. Do something else." and withholding CPs for repeat offenders.

But I understand it is impossible to not metagame to a certain extent because we are real people playing the roles of fictional characters in a fictional setting, outside looking in, so I actually approve of some metagaming. If the player can provide a creative explanation for how his PC might know something, I may allow it.

I'm ok with some knowledge things like players reading up on planets or alien species and having their characters show more general knowledge than their character sheet's skill would suggest they would. But even that is a little risky because I change little things here and there so the PC's knowledge may end up being somewhat misinformed. And there are always individuals that defy the species stereotype so they can still be surprised (in the same way anyone making a very high skill roll could).

I even encourage metagaming is some rare cases such as when the PC's path may cross with a film canon character taking place before that film. I enjoy players coming up with creative ways for their characters to protect continuity that only the players would know about. I once ran a game where a PC had an entertaining interaction with one of the goons in Jabba's palace, in an adventure set years before RotJ. The NPC turned into an ongoing antagonist of the PC and the NPC would turn up in various ways once every few adventures. Since killing the NPC was off the table, the tone become annoyance and frustration for the PC, and a lot of fun roleplaying sessions.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage

[griff]

In some of the early 1e supplement adventures the GM would narrate a scene with the Imperials that the characters would have no way of knowing about. It also suggested some answers if the players ask why they were hearing this, some answers were like this was a spy's report or a FS character had a vision, but the one I liked the most was "its part of the story". I have employed this to a small extent, usually before and or after a gaming session to make the story more interesting, staying away from giving too much information that the characters us to upset the narrative.
_________________
"EXECUTE ORDER 67. Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like order 67..... No, wait. Yes, yes it does. EXECUTE ORDER 68" Palpatine's last moments - robot chicken.