Of Gunners, and full dodge..

[garhkal]

Another, from the holonet..

For starship combat, when a pilot goes for a 'full dodge' (maneuverability) against incomming attacks, is there any corisponding penalties assigned to the gunners in that ship targeting those around them??

Several gm's i have played under had rules for that, though i am thinking they were just house rules.

1 had it where the full total ROLLED by the pilot was assigned to your target diff to shoot enemies. The other had it half value...
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[Gry Sarth]

There's certainly no official rules for that, but that house rule sounds nice. If the pilot is making a full starship dodge, it means he's jinking that ship like a madman, so it's understandable that his dodge should add to the gunner's firing difficulty or something like that....
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[Vartax]

I would either be no attacks avalible due to the kinds a manuvers the pilot is using to dodge. Or the difficulty mod that was given to the dodge roll would also apply to the attack roll for the gunner.

[Boomer]

I have toyed with this idea in my head, but am unsure of quite how to handle it realistically.

On the one hand, how is it any diffrent from normal gunning, except you can concentrate fully on gunning and let someone else handle the flying.

On the other hand, relative to the gunner the target is still making more motion.

It goes back and forth in my head, each side is valid. This has yet to come up in game, but right now I am going with as per the rules simply because I am undecided.
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[KageRyu]

I know this was already covered before, not too long ago either. Lot's of these temporal echoes lately. I sense a great disturbance in the force.
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[garhkal]

I checked back amonst the posts i made when i first arived, and did not see it... though i did have it over on the holonet... you visit there?
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[KageRyu]

[scott2978]

[garhkal]

Well, its a somewhat slow weekend, and we have had lots of newer people on this site since 05.
So for all our new folk, what's your thoughts for this situation?
Does a full dodge of a ship hurt it's own gunners? If so, how badly?
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[Fallon Kell]

Per RAW, it does in 2E. The evasion roll subtracts from the gunnery roll.
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Complete Starship Construction System

[CRMcNeill]

I would think any sort of maneuver would increase the gunnery difficulty unless the ship features stabilized turrets of some kind.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Centinull]

[garhkal]

[vanir]

I go straight into the deep end when seeking that level of detail.
Not only does jinking a firing platform affect gunnery skill, but you should start to get specific about fields of fire, jamming effects (ECM/ECCM), visual ranges, sensor capabilities for the fire control set (radar guidence won't help much against a stealth ship even if you can see it with your eyes plainly....edit add, US stealth fighters shot down so far have only be downed over open sights, no fire control was available because they defied it, but have been shot down with emplacement fire over open sights, or using visual guidence commands from spotters with radios).

Say on the YT-1300, I specify a dorsal turret, or a ventral turret, effectively adding upper/lower firing arcs into our space combat scenes.
So PCs roleplaying as a gunner, well first they've got to figure out how to fire up the fire control set and paint targets (sensor skill) unless another crewmember is doing it for them (the copilot could feed sensor information to the gunnery emplacements but he needs to first make a sensor roll, somebody has to make a sensors roll to get the fire control bonus for guns, that simple).
They've got to fire up the power converters and operating system for the guns themselves (comp.prog./repair roll), again another crewmember, say a ship's engineer could do that roll for the whole ship but somebody has to make that dice roll and monitor the power system (RotJ scene, prior to the Millennium Falcon firing its main turrets, from the cockpit a flight engineer first specifies to Lando the ship-captain, "Pressure steady (ie. gunners are cleared to fire).").

Then following that even a TIE pilot might attempt to jam sensor signals in the area by flooding with his own sensor array using base Sensor skill.
Opposed rolls to keep your fire control (you have sensor bonus though, so unless a custom TIE has specialized jamming equipment with bonuses, he's at the disadvantage on just base sensor skill to jam sensors).
As an electronic warfare phase I give responding to things like jamming attempts as a reactionary skill use so it doesn't have to be declared, but it can be distracting and annoying when the jam succeeds, PC gunners typically lose at least 3D off their shot when that happens.

Assuming they've got this far, the PC gunner now has to consider his firing platform.
On a jinking starship doing full dodges, with a dorsal turret (on top of the hull), you might have every firing arc but you can't hit anything below the hull's horizon, enemy fighters can evade your fire by sticking to the underside of the hull at point blank range.
But they would have to match or exceed your starship's manoeuvring rolls to do that.
So there's a "basic flight manoeuvres" (BFM) phase involved in close quarters starship combat, you need to get your enemy craft onto your firing arcs, and to do that at point blank range you need to out-manoeuvre him in a dogfight. You have to exceed his piloting/man roll.

The alternative is get distance, from medium range (3-4 space units for small craft), the enemy starship is visually, dozens of kilometres away from you already and you don't need to match his manoeuvring rolls to fire on him with lateral gunnery stations.
You just need to bank the ship in his general direction. Easy.

So I'm on it like that basically.

[DougRed4]

I've never had any of my ships do a 'full dodge', I don't think (not that I can remember), so this hasn't come up for me before. But the logic does make sense (and we've instituted a house rule about moving targets for people on the ground).

vanir, while all that you wrote makes sense, that's making things way more complicated than I prefer. I like to keep the action moving and the pacing fast ("moving quickly" and "avoiding number crunching", as is recommended on p. 123-124 2R&E).

Are the distances for each 'space unit' ever defined? I thought they were thousands of kilometers per each, but I might be thinking of another game.
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