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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Unfortunately as a GM, I can't easily forget what I do know so most of the time, the auction makes for a more fair method of choosing the level of haste for the NPCs. |
Well, I have no problem with that. In general I would just chose any haste actions before the PCs declared theirs, but if it suited the plot Id just change my mind as long as it seems a reasonable action. However, one must be rather restrictive in this, as otherwise the advantage quickly becomes 'unfair'. In general NPC 'goons' dont do special actions, but more skilled opponents going on the initiative would.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In general NPC 'goons' dont do special actions, but more skilled opponents going on the initiative would. |
Besides with "goon" or mook stats, adding haste to their actions is just a faster way for them to fail.  |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Quote: | | In general NPC 'goons' dont do special actions, but more skilled opponents going on the initiative would. |
Besides with "goon" or mook stats, adding haste to their actions is just a faster way for them to fail. |
Which might also be fun or suit the plot too..
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:46 am Post subject: |
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BTW, thinking about the problem mentioned above with Jedis taking forever to draw their lightsabers and being ready to use them.
How about having some actions (lightsaber combat in this case) being classed as 'instant' actions. This means that while they still are actions (maps and all) they can be combined with certain other actions. In this case drawing and activating your lightsaber. Perhaps have a Control skill treshold for this?
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | BTW, thinking about the problem mentioned above with Jedis taking forever to draw their lightsabers and being ready to use them.
How about having some actions (lightsaber combat in this case) being classed as 'instant' actions. This means that while they still are actions (maps and all) they can be combined with certain other actions. In this case drawing and activating your lightsaber. Perhaps have a Control skill treshold for this? |
That seems reasonable. But it doesn't solve the problem of Jedi's being able to parry blaster bolts (or other attacks) if they aren't able to draw & ignite their LS and put up LS combat before the attack hits. That is one thing Haste rules are designed to fix.
Also, given the difficulty for LS combat, beginning padawan's will want to (whenever possible) take time to put up LS combat one force skill at a time (possibly using Concentration on the first and hardest skill roll), then draw and ignite their light saber. This is what you see in the movies when a Jedi acts slowly and deliberately. For more skilled Jedi, if the situation warrants they can use Haste to do all those actions in the blink of an eye (or faster ) so that they can parry an opponent's attack. Well they can try to do all that, if they roll well enough despite MAPs they can succeed. 
Of course if you are not using Haste, the Jedi may need to have Danger Sense up to get a warning of an attack. From a style/tone perspective I am uncomfortable with Jedi always having Danger Sense up. But that may just be me. The way we play Jedi tend to put up Danger Sense if they have some reason to think there is likely to be Danger, but don't wander about with it up all the time. We do allow a chance for Jedi with the power to trigger Danger Sense when they don't have the power up. But whether that works is up to the GM. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I am the same way bren... i cannot see someone bring it up and keeping it up long term.. heck i can easily see an hour max and having to then rest for a little.
As for the LS combat, hows about
Lightsaber Combat
Control Difficulty M (15)
Sense Difficulty E (10)
Power may be kept ‘up’
Effect – This power can be called upon at the start of a battle and remains ‘up’ until the Force-user is stunned, wounded or worse; a Force-user who has been injured or stunned may attempt to bring this power back "up".
If the Force-user is successful in using this power, she adds her sense dice to her lightsaber skill roll when attacking and parrying. The Force-user may add or subtract part or all of her control dice to the lightsaber's damage; players must decide how many control dice they are adding or subtracting when the power is activated.
If the user wishes to bring it up quicker, he adds 5 to both activation rolls for each 'hasting' he is performing.
EG Wegn is getting ready to face down a quartet of stormtroopers. He calls his first action drawing his LS, then activating LS combat so he can parry their bolts. Since he realizes he cannot deflect until LS combat is up, he decides to haste it twice so it kicks in AS he draws his lightsaber.. So this not only adds 10 to the target number to activate but also impinges a -2d MAP on both control and sense for doing 3 actions...
BUT if he is successful, when the stormies get to go (since they lost init) he will be able to parry using his LS -3d (for it being a fourth action) + sense.
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think this is pretty much what ZzaphodD intended. Nice writeup. This works if the Jedi has the initiative, but that means he/she is drawing and activating the LS befoe he knows the Imperials are going to attack, which may in fact trigger the attack.
If the Jedi loses the initiative roll, unless the Jedi has Danger Sense up, he gets shot before drawing and activating. Which tends to make the players want Danger Sense up all the time so they can successfully block the blaster shots.
Imagine if the stormtroopers couldn't parry the PCs attacks or dodge their shots unless they win initiatitve for the round. Effectively that would give the PCs a set of free attacks. But the rules as written allow the stormies a reaction dodge even if they go last. The Haste rules are designed (in part) to equalize the Jedi's to reaction block shots.
I can see both sides of this and as I've said, haste solves some problems (works nice for managing ambushes, reaction LS combat actions, and Wild West style gunfights), but causes other problems.
I like the fact that haste allows experienced Jedi to wait to draw, ignite, and put up LS combat. It lets them be more peaceful (until the other guy starts the trouble). I like the fact that this doesn't work for padawans. Therefore, they may be more inclined to draw their weapons sooner which makes them seem hasty (pun intended) compared to the Masters and Knights. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Rash are you my padawan... a true jedi sees no need for violence, till it finds him.. yes!
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | BTW, thinking about the problem mentioned above with Jedis taking forever to draw their lightsabers and being ready to use them.
How about having some actions (lightsaber combat in this case) being classed as 'instant' actions. This means that while they still are actions (maps and all) they can be combined with certain other actions. In this case drawing and activating your lightsaber. Perhaps have a Control skill treshold for this? |
That seems reasonable. But it doesn't solve the problem of Jedi's being able to parry blaster bolts (or other attacks) if they aren't able to draw & ignite their LS and put up LS combat before the attack hits. That is one thing Haste rules are designed to fix. |
Well, if the Jedi is caught flat footed with a gun pointing at him I dont see a problem with not being able to parry. There must be some drawback with having an superüber blasterdefence. Jedi-überness in all its glory but being able to draw, ignite and start up LSC before someone can pull a trigger seems a bitt OTT. Also, thats what Danger Sense was made for, then he have an entire round to draw his lightsaber..
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
If the Jedi loses the initiative roll, unless the Jedi has Danger Sense up, he gets shot before drawing and activating. Which tends to make the players want Danger Sense up all the time so they can successfully block the blaster shots. |
Ah, here it was adressed.
I think of Danger Sense should partly intuitive, just like Sixth Sense often works in RPGs. In this case it has to be 'activated' but I see no problem with Jedis having it 'on' most of the time.
In the force revamp Im working on some powers will have certain attached to them. The 'Instant' idea above is one of them. Another is called just 'Intuitive' which means that the power has a chance of working even if its not 'activated'. This is so far only Sense powers. Danger sense is one such where the Jedi for example may roll a Sense check instead of a Perception to 'see' the ambush one round in advance (as per Danger Sense).
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Danger sense is one such where the Jedi for example may roll a Sense check instead of a Perception to 'see' the ambush one round in advance (as per Danger Sense). |
That sounds like a reasonable idea. I think that's the way I might work it when I get around to revamping Force rules.
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Well, if the Jedi is caught flat footed with a gun pointing at him I dont see a problem with not being able to parry. |
Would you let a character (Jedi or not) dodge an attack in this situation? If so, why and how is that different than blocking the attack? Note, that I am not arguing for a particular point of view, I am just curious. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
I think of Danger Sense should partly intuitive, just like Sixth Sense often works in RPGs. In this case it has to be 'activated' but I see no problem with Jedis having it 'on' most of the time.
In the force revamp Im working on some powers will have certain attached to them. The 'Instant' idea above is one of them. Another is called just 'Intuitive' which means that the power has a chance of working even if its not 'activated'. This is so far only Sense powers. Danger sense is one such where the Jedi for example may roll a Sense check instead of a Perception to 'see' the ambush one round in advance (as per Danger Sense). |
I disagree it should be intuitive.. otherwise all those jedi in ROTS would have seen those backstab attacks coming..
| Quote: | | Would you let a character (Jedi or not) dodge an attack in this situation? If so, why and how is that different than blocking the attack? Note, that I am not arguing for a particular point of view, I am just curious. |
Dodge is just one action.. Parry requires LS combat to be brought up (2 actions), his lightsaber to be drawn (1 action) then the parry (1 action)...
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think part of the problem lies in 2E7s reliance of powers for everything. Rather than an Danger Sense power, I think Jedi should be able to use SENSE in place of PER to detect/notice things.
The James Bond RPG used to have a Sixth Sense skill that you could use to notice things that you really had not reason to (i.e. like noticing that the guy walking down the street has a grenade in his backpack).
Being able to use SENSE like that would give Jedi the acute senses they are supposed to have. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Well, if the Jedi is caught flat footed with a gun pointing at him I dont see a problem with not being able to parry. |
Would you let a character (Jedi or not) dodge an attack in this situation? If so, why and how is that different than blocking the attack? Note, that I am not arguing for a particular point of view, I am just curious. |
Because to dodge, you dont have to bend down to tie your shoelaces first..
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