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Figting and Capturing Large Creatures
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dph
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Figting and Capturing Large Creatures Reply with quote

I have pretty balanced four player 'crew' who I wish to put up against a number of 'large' creatures (like but not necessarily a Wampa, Rancor, K'lor'slug, etc.) over a series of different adventures; that is 4 players VS 1 large creature.

I've found that these kinds of battles end up either the players having difficluty scratching an invariably high strength score or the creature being overwhelmed by superior numbers- Either way a boring fight.

I would also liketo have them subdue and capture some of these larger creatures. How can I augment the players ability to do this without dropping a powerful reusable weapons at their feet?

What are some suggestions for making these encounters interesting and balanced. Some examples would be great!

Thanks all
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Random Numbers
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A one shot stun rpg! Very Happy
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Single use stun mines. Single use sonic mines/grenades. Expensive as heck gas grenades.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use terrain to your advantage. If there are boulders and valleys, they make great impromptu weapons rolling down a hill.

I've never tried it, but you could resort to using Body Points from D6 Space on the really huge creatures.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Use terrain to your advantage. If there are boulders and valleys, they make great impromptu weapons rolling down a hill.

I've never tried it, but you could resort to using Body Points from D6 Space on the really huge creatures.


The SW D6 rules work fine for human-sized (or about human sized) beings. When it comes to large creatures you end up with these problems. The distance between overpowering and overpowered is very small due to the 'all or nothing' approach to damage. I have been thinking about some kind of body points solution myself, without having looked at D6 space. I think the best way would be to have a separat wound table for Large Creatures and that they can take more 'wound' resuslts without being totally unable to act.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:


The SW D6 rules work fine for human-sized (or about human sized) beings. When it comes to large creatures you end up with these problems. The distance between overpowering and overpowered is very small due to the 'all or nothing' approach to damage. I have been thinking about some kind of body points solution myself, without having looked at D6 space. I think the best way would be to have a separat wound table for Large Creatures and that they can take more 'wound' resuslts without being totally unable to act.


I think the difficulty lies in the fact that in 2nd Edition the damage roll must match or beat the STR roll to have any effect. In 1st Edition, revised there was a rule that any damage roll that was more that half of the STR roll inflicted a STUN result.

Something along those lines would help here. Creature like Reeks, Acklays, Rancors, and even Kryat Dragons could then be eventually stunned into unconscious, even with small arms.


Another thing that would help would be using one of the damage increasing options from the Spec Forces handbook. I use the rule where characters trade off skill for extra damage. It is nice becuase it allows someone to up thier damage (and hurt big nasties), but the loss of skill dice prevents them form doing it all the time.


As far as a one shot way to take down big nasties, I suggest doing like they do in monster films-create some new weapon that is is limited supply.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt read the problem as such that it was too hard to take down beasts. The problem is finding a 'balance' where there a prolonged nail biting struggle. The current system is a bit all or nothing which works fine when it comes to 'normal size' opponents but results in the problem described for larger creatures (ie either invulrnerable or just steamrolled).
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Called shots. Take out their eyes, their ears, their limbs and take the creature apart piecemeal. Remember, called shots are at higer difficulty levels.

I always have to look it up to see if Character points can be used to augment damage. But if they can then by all means, use them.

Give them an environmental hazard. Luke used the gate to kill the rancor. Vent a Nexu into the void of space. The players will have to herd the animal to the trap, but c'est la guerre!

A wampa and an acklay both roll 7D against blaster fire. A four person team using combined fire with a 5D rifle would do 6D+1 damage. 7D versus 6D+1, now it's a relatively fair fight. Your players will probably only be able to do a 3-4 damage differential until they explode on the wild die, but it should prove to be a long, gruesome fight you'll never forget.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try having a skill damage bonus added to possibly do damage (or even stun). Rules of Engagement lays out some optional combat rules, one of which is a couple variations of the skill damage bonus. In the first the character rolls their to hit roll, if they hit, then they subtract the difficulty number from their roll, the result is then added to their damage roll. Let's say the difficulty was a 12 and you rolled a 26 (either you got lucky on the WD or had plenty of dice). That's a 14 difference. Then you roll damage and get 17, adding in the 14 you've now rolled 31 damage. The target now has to resist 31 instead of 17. A higher level character has more chance of resisting, of course, but this increases the chances of hitting

In the second variation of the skill damage bonus (which is for if GMs think the first is too deadly) the character gets +1 to the damage roll for every five points they beat the the difficulty by. If the difficulty is 10 and you get 25 then you'd ad +3 to the damage roll.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, the OP:s problem is not taking down large beasts, but instead finding balance to make them challenging. They are either Overpowering or get overpowered as it is.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
Called shots. Take out their eyes, their ears, their limbs and take the creature apart piecemeal. Remember, called shots are at higer difficulty levels.

I always have to look it up to see if Character points can be used to augment damage. But if they can then by all means, use them.


Though it does warn doing so is of the dark side (or close to it).

Quote:
Give them an environmental hazard. Luke used the gate to kill the rancor. Vent a Nexu into the void of space. The players will have to herd the animal to the trap, but c'est la guerre!


And it is even nastier if the animal some how manages to lock onto a PC when he is 'spaced'... As i had happen to one group hunting down a big @$$ bear like creature for a hutt.

Quote:
A wampa and an acklay both roll 7D against blaster fire. A four person team using combined fire with a 5D rifle would do 6D+1 damage. 7D versus 6D+1, now it's a relatively fair fight. Your players will probably only be able to do a 3-4 damage differential until they explode on the wild die, but it should prove to be a long, gruesome fight you'll never forget.


That depends on which combined fire rules you go by. But you can also do things like have each player jury rig 2 blaster rifles together, so with 5 players that gives you 10 rifles worth of firepower. Then start to look into allowing the various damage adding rules from Rules of Engagement. Such as Dice pools. Say each 2d taken from your too hit pool adds 1d to damage. Called shots (+5 to the difficulty to hit) also adds 1d.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
I didnt read the problem as such that it was too hard to take down beasts. The problem is finding a 'balance' where there a prolonged nail biting struggle. The current system is a bit all or nothing which works fine when it comes to 'normal size' opponents but results in the problem described for larger creatures (ie either invulrnerable or just steamrolled).


I read the problem as it IS too hard to take down large beasts. For example, a Acklay has a 7D STR, and a Krayt Dragon has a 12D STR. In 2R&E it will be very difficult to take down one of these beasts with standard blasters (5D damage). Even combined fire isn7t going to help much at +1 pip per character.


I don7t have a problem with the "all or nothing approach". It is far more realistic that whittling down HP. Characters dropping form 1 point hits to the foot comes to mind. Reasltically, uoi could empty a couple of M16 mags into a elephant and it would still be active enough to take out most of the people shooting it, if they were dumb enough to get in close. The elephant will problaby collaspe and die of blood loss in a few minutes, but that won't do much good to anyone who got trampled.


What we don't see in D6 is the delayed effects of wounds. For example, even if someone shrugas off a bullet or blaster hit, they probably astill have a wound that needs to be treated. .
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:

I read the problem as it IS too hard to take down large beasts.


From the following..
Quote:
I've found that these kinds of battles end up either the players having difficluty scratching an invariably high strength score or the creature being overwhelmed by superior numbers- Either way a boring fight.


..I got the impression that it was either overpowered or overpowering that was the problem.[/quote]
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tetsuoh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmao you wouldn't even have to give my character a new toy....

I'm pretty sure a bandolier of 16 stun grenades would work rather effectively as a final blow for a creature capture....

and they're reusable!

Anyway, I'd add a nice chunk of story and perhaps odd abilities or creature handlers if the players seem to have too big an advantage.

and for too tough a creature I'd add opportunities such as catching it asleep, ways to lure it into traps - etc etc.

nice nice graphic - a solid gray rancor - pet to a dathomir witch. The crew is paid nicely to capture it alive, the employer could care less about its master.
The crew split into two groups - one sneaks into the witchs home to deal with her only be caught up in a fight for thier lives. meanwhile the other group tried to smoke the rancor with sleep gass but a misstep awoke it and they are being chased down the canyon towards thier second trap - a line of sonic stun mines.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only if thy are merr-sonn stun grenades. All others are non rechargable.
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