What distance is a space unit?

[atgxtg]

[atgxtg]

[Madwand]

For those of you looking for a simpler rule that also works, you can use the log base 10 version. It works like this:

Take the (log base 10 of the length of the object)x5-5. This is your bonus to sense the object. For an easy estimate of this, just count the number of digits in the length after the first and multiply by 5. Thus, a Star Destroyer over 1km long would be +15 to spot. A Sun-sized object is 1.392×10^6 km in diameter, so it is 5*9=+45 to spot.

Now, for each x10 of your sensor multiple, add +5 difficulty. Thus, the aforementioned X-wing could have a +0 effective bonus to spot the Star Destroyer at 75,000 space units.

This version of the rules is easier, and approximately accurate at all ranges. It isn't as fine-grained as using log base 2, but it works.

An implication of these rules -- both versions -- is that objects that are closer are easier to see. Thus, at 1/10th normal range, ships get -5 to difficulty. At 1/100th of normal range, -10 to sensor difficulty, etc.

[atgxtg]

[quote="Madwand"]For those of you looking for a simpler rule that also works, you can use the log base 10 version.

I originally used a Log10 version. Primarily because a log10 function is used for Stellar Magnitude. (2.51^log10).


Oh, and your math is a bit off for the values. You forgot to take of 5 for your values.

Star Destroyer 1600m: +15 (log10 1600=3.2x5= 16, round to +15)
Stat 1.392E9 m: +45 (log10 1.329E9=9.14x=46, round to +45)

So with the -5 they would drop to +10 and +40, respectively.

[Madwand]

[Whill]

Cool to see other math nerds here besides me!

Yeah, I can't think of a scenerio where PCs would really have to use sensors for stars and planets. Planets and stars change position in predictable ways, and that's handled by the navigation computer. OK, maybe if the PCs have a severe astrogation mishap in which they go off course without knowing it, and the navicomputer is down when they drop out of hyperspace and don't know where they are. But even in that extreme case there are rules for manually comparing visual information about star postions (and apparent magnitudes) to star charts to attempt to calculate their postion, without really needing sensors.

And I guess sensors could be used for planets if travelling to an unexplored system. The navicomputer may not have much if any information about planets in the system before getting there. But I still doubt there would be much need for sensors because the GM could just handwave that, "you pick up a planet on your sensors that may be capable of supporting organic life." and move the plot forward.

Otherwise the navigation computer keeps track of where planets are in their orbits around the stars at any given time so they should rarely need to use sensors to identify where they are in relation to astonomical bodies. ("Our position is correct, except…no Alderaan!"). In other words, they should know where a planet is before it shows up on sensors because of its position being calculated by the navicomputer.

As far the rest of the stuff in this thread (size of ships, etc.), I think there is a lot here to consider and when I have more time I'll take a closer look at the math and the game mechanics. Thanks guys!
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[atgxtg]

You're welcome, but as one of the co-conspirators I wouldn't rush to go over this if I were you.

IMO the best feature might be to give ships, at least the big ones a "signature" rating that reduces the difficulty to detect them (or adds a sensor bonus).

That and the idea of increasing sensor range.

Most of this probably won't come up much during normal play. I know my players generally only stay in realspace long enough to program the navicomp. But that might be due to all the Vulture-droids?

[Madwand]

[atgxtg]

I can think of one situation where the "expanded sensors rules" would make sense, and it is very Star Wars, too.

Using the sensors to determine that a "small moon" is really a space station.

[JT Swift]

My friends and I (they being aerial warfare nuts and me being a physicist) hammered out the following compromises….

Military vessels use sophisticated jammers and other ECM to prevent detection. (Remember they couldn’t detect the Death Star’s shield from a few 100 km away in ROTJ?)

So, for detecting military vessels use the sensor ranges listed by WEG. For non military NON-military targets (or military vessels that are deliberately trying to be noticed) multiply all sensor ranges (except possibly Focus) by a factor of 900. This was based off the detailed ranges quoted in “The Black Fleet Crisis” novels.
(It’s up to the GM which freighters have the ‘special modifications’ necessary to be sneaky).

As for the ORIGINAL question of ‘What is a spatial’?

I decided I’d turn to the most obvious source. Luke says they are flying at ‘full throttle’ down the Death Star trench in ANH. And the targeting computer shows his rate of speed in meters/second quite nicely. Do the math and an X-wing with a move of 8 (assuming high speed move of 16) works out to ~320 meters per second. So a spatial equals…100 meters! Which is what West End has been secretly telling us all along! This does allow your space battles to look like what they do in the movie theater.

So that’s combat speed. Any more then that and you start running into acceleration problems. For long term travel I used the fan-wanky accelerations quoted in the “Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels” and the “Complete Cross-Sections” books. And did some hand waving about it taking an hour for engines to warm up to that acceleration, and so forth.

Is it perfect? No.
Does it probably have huge holes in it? Yes.
What do I do when they come up? I ask myself – how would George Lucas handle this question. (Which usually means make everything “faster and more intense”)
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[Nico_Davout]

Those who are interested in a simplified starship rules can check SW D20 1st edition (they are not in 2nd edition). There were very simple rules without bothering about distance in any units. I am currently trying to adept them to my SW D6.
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[atgxtg]

[quote=JT Swift]
So a spatial equals…100 meters! Which is what West End has been secretly telling us all along! [/quote]

I don''t know about that. I think Gry was right with 400 m/SU as a default. Reason being that a Star Destroy is 1600m long, and in Star Warriors the SD counters are almost exactly 4 hexes long.

But WEG did say that the size of the SU increase as you get father away from planets and other objects.

[quote=Nico_Davout]Those who are interested in a simplified starship rules can check SW D20 1st edition (they are not in 2nd edition). There were very simple rules without bothering about distance in any units. I am currently trying to adept them to my SW D6. [/quote]

Good luck, Nick. The biggest problem with the First edition chase rules, IMO is that skill adds to practically everything. This means that Han Solo in an escape pod can out fly a TIE Interceptor.

I'd suggest doubling and maxing out the speed dice for the various craft. So a "Stock" YT-1300 would be +24, and a TIE Interceptor +64. So anything more that a 1D difference in Speed Code will take a lot of skill to compensate for.

[ZzaphodD]

I still keep the starship XD speeds as well. However, If the ships are in 'clear' space I switch to the static Space stat.

[Madwand]

[ZzaphodD]