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JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
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 Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: Simple Force Rules |
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I’m guessing nobody has anything like this, but I thought I ask…
About the ONLY thing I did like about Saga d20 Star Wars was that the Force powers tended to be a lot simpler and faster to roll for. I don’t think any of them required more then a single roll and calculating the difficulties was often much easier.
I light of that I was thinking of going through the big bad book of Force Powers and simplifying them a bit. I’m not trying to make them easier for the heroes to use. I’m trying to make them easier/faster for the GM and PLAYERS to use.
Things I was considering was a simplified range modifies table (less granulated), and ensuring that no Force Power requires more then one die roll to use (Control, Sense, or Alter as most appropriate).
However, before I sunk to much work into this I thought I’d see if anyone had done anything similar already. No need to reinvent the wheel, and all that.
Thanks!
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- J.T. Swift
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I have simplified force rules in my games this way:
First, instead of Control, Sense, Alter I use Peace, Discipline and Understanding (this is from some variant written by one person from this forum).
Second, there is no dice on skills in my games, instead there are skill points like in D20.
Third, you have force attribute starting with 3D (can be lowered only if you start losing limbs and replace them with cybernetic stuff).
In the end, characters are rolling only once 3D + skill points + modifiers.
When force power has several difficulties, the character has only to roll the highest difficulty. Less checks, less rolling.
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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There've been a couple house rules for simplifying the Force. Here's one I've drafted for using a single Force attribute, with powers analogous to skills.
| Force Attribute system wrote: |
.: Characters may be made Force Sensitive with the expenditure of at least 1 Attribute die into the Force Sensitive ability
---- Only Attribute dice may be used to increase Force Sensitive at character creation; Skill dice may not be used (though they may be used for individual Force Powers)
---- Non-Force Sensitives may become Force Sensitive (1D) for 20CP in game.
.: Force Sensitive behaves as an Attribute for Force use
---- Advancement of Force Sensitive ability at Advanced Skill costs (xD+y -> xD+(y+1) requires 2x CP)
---- Advancement of Force Sensitive without an instructor requires 3x standard skill advancement cost (3x xD => xD+1)
.: Force Powers are skills of the Force Sensitive ability
---- Advancement of Power die codes conducted at specialization cost
---- Advancement of Power die code without an instructor conducted at standard skill cost
---- Force Powers with prerequisites require 2D invested in the prerequisite Powers before they can be trained
---- Starting Skill dice may be allocated to Force Powers at character creation at standard Skill costs (1D => 1D)
.: A Teacher must have at least 3D in Force Sensitive or a Power. They must also have at least 3D above the student's current ability to be teach.
.: Force Powers requiring more than one of the standard Force Skills (C/S/A) have their difficulties set as the highest of the Force Skills listed in their descriptions.
.: Force Powers may be used untrained
---- Force Powers without prerequisites simply use the Force Sensitive ability
---- Force Powers with prerequisites may be attempted at +5 difficulty for the first missing prerequisite, compounded by +2 for each additional missing prerequisite power
---- All Untrained Force Power use subject to GM approval
---- Force Sensitives WITHOUT knowledge of the Force (ie. an introduction to Jedi training, etc) CANNOT attempt any Force Powers consciously! Force Sensitive may be used, at GM discretion, to sense "tremors" in the Force or otherwise augment the characters in a story appropriate manner; a coincidental push to help them succeed in critical moments, etc. |
Nice part about this is that it allows you to customize your character's Force strengths, as seen in the EU material; some Jedi are good at certain powers or power families and weak in others... this isn't readily emulated in the C/S/A format. Additionally, there is very little change required in the established powers to work with the system and it works just as well with most User created powers and alternate Force schools, ie. Dathomirian Witches.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: |
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You're welcome. It's worked pretty well, but, it hasn't really seen much play testing, so it could have some serious flaws I haven't anticipated  If you give it a try, let me know how it works out for you.
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JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: |
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So far here’s what I’ve come up with…
Most of the time that someone uses a proximity or relationship modified power its line of sight and on a friend. So I’m going to tweak the difficulties and the tables so that you only have to add (or subtract) difficulty modifiers if its NOT line of sight or on a friend.
As long as I’m redoing the tables I’m going to make them a bit less graduated so that there are fewer categories to remember (which will hopefully eventually lead to me and the gamers memorizing the tables).
Only the super special Force powers (and those with serious game unbalancing potential like Affect Mind and Control mind) will require a roll with more then one Force Skill.
I’m creating a more powerful version of Combat Sense that will replace Lightsabre Combat and most of the other combat skill boosting powers.
On the opposite side of things I’m ripping-off/converting a few of the Force Powers from the Star Warriors board game as I think that Pilot/Vehicle specific powers are under represented (even in the complete Force Power book you guys published).
I’ll post them here if anyone’s interested.
I’ve also got a few White Current Fallanassi (sp?) powers to add. (not that I expect them to show up much in the game).
If you don’t mind me asking, why weren’t the Fallanassi Powers included in the big bad PDF of Force Powers? 
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- J.T. Swift
For Everything about the TARDIS check out
http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/
For all things Gallifreyan check out
http://meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html |
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | | If you don’t mind me asking, why weren’t the Fallanassi Powers included in the big bad PDF of Force Powers? |
I wasn't an author/compiler, but I imagine because that book is focused on teh Jedi/Sith paradigm. Other established power types (ie. Fallanassi and Dathomirian) don't fit into the scheme... That and the fact that the Fallanassi stuff is not really intended to be used by players at all.
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TrenVeinfield
Cadet
Joined: 10 Feb 2011
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Force Attribute system wrote:
.: Characters may be made Force Sensitive with the expenditure of at least 1 Attribute die into the Force Sensitive ability
---- Only Attribute dice may be used to increase Force Sensitive at character creation; Skill dice may not be used (though they may be used for individual Force Powers)
---- Non-Force Sensitives may become Force Sensitive (1D) for 20CP in game.
.: Force Sensitive behaves as an Attribute for Force use
---- Advancement of Force Sensitive ability at Advanced Skill costs (xD+y -> xD+(y+1) requires 2x CP)
---- Advancement of Force Sensitive without an instructor requires 3x standard skill advancement cost (3x xD => xD+1)
.: Force Powers are skills of the Force Sensitive ability
---- Advancement of Power die codes conducted at specialization cost
---- Advancement of Power die code without an instructor conducted at standard skill cost
---- Force Powers with prerequisites require 2D invested in the prerequisite Powers before they can be trained
---- Starting Skill dice may be allocated to Force Powers at character creation at standard Skill costs (1D => 1D)
.: A Teacher must have at least 3D in Force Sensitive or a Power. They must also have at least 3D above the student's current ability to be teach.
.: Force Powers requiring more than one of the standard Force Skills (C/S/A) have their difficulties set as the highest of the Force Skills listed in their descriptions.
.: Force Powers may be used untrained
---- Force Powers without prerequisites simply use the Force Sensitive ability
---- Force Powers with prerequisites may be attempted at +5 difficulty for the first missing prerequisite, compounded by +2 for each additional missing prerequisite power
---- All Untrained Force Power use subject to GM approval
---- Force Sensitives WITHOUT knowledge of the Force (ie. an introduction to Jedi training, etc) CANNOT attempt any Force Powers consciously! Force Sensitive may be used, at GM discretion, to sense "tremors" in the Force or otherwise augment the characters in a story appropriate manner; a coincidental push to help them succeed in critical moments, etc. |
I like this idea, but I have only one quick question: If the Force Powers are treated as skills, then they would start at +1 above the base attribute not at 1D, right? If the skills start above the base attribute, and if character's base attribute is above 2D, then how does the rule for prerequisites work? |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | So far here’s what I’ve come up with…
Most of the time that someone uses a proximity or relationship modified power its line of sight and on a friend. So I’m going to tweak the difficulties and the tables so that you only have to add (or subtract) difficulty modifiers if its NOT line of sight or on a friend.
As long as I’m redoing the tables I’m going to make them a bit less graduated so that there are fewer categories to remember (which will hopefully eventually lead to me and the gamers memorizing the tables). |
Good idea. I think something like what was done with the vehicles rules would be a blessing. Rather than working out relationships to the Nth degree, having three of four cartegories with a lvel shift would be a lost fasiter an easier. Something like intimates/associates/auqiatiances/ and strangers might work. Aleins could get another lvel shift or two based on how differernt they are compared to the force user. The alien penalty could be reduced as the Jedi became more familar with the alien.
| JT Swift wrote: |
Only the super special Force powers (and those with serious game unbalancing potential like Affect Mind and Control mind) will require a roll with more then one Force Skill. |
A house rule I was going to try was to roll the lowest applicable Force skill vs. the highest applicable difficulty. For example, Lightsaber Conmbat is a Control and Sense power that normal requires a Moderate Control roll and an Easy Sense roll. It could be simplified to a Moderate roll of the lower of Control or Sense. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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I would add 1 diff level per skill it would normally have to be rolled. So that LS example would be simplified, roll lower of con or sense at diff of difficult (moderate +1 cat shift). For say a CSA power (not am as it has one which has a variable diff based on resistance of target), go 2 cat shifts...
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I would add 1 diff level per skill it would normally have to be rolled. So that LS example would be simplified, roll lower of con or sense at diff of difficult (moderate +1 cat shift). For say a CSA power (not am as it has one which has a variable diff based on resistance of target), go 2 cat shifts... |
How 'bout the cat shifts can be reduced by spending time (1 round per skill/cat shift). Overwise it will be much harder than it is now.
For example, right now a character with Control 4D and Sense 3D has a better than 50-50 chance of raising Lightsaber Combat, if he takes two rounds. With a cat shift 3D vs Difficult is about a 10% chance of success (barring the wild die, or spending CPs/FPs) . That is tougher than according to RAW, even with MAPs.
But if taking an extra round negated the cat shift, then it would be 3D vs Moderate, which is better than a 50-50 chance, and closer to RAW.
And still pretty simple, too.IMO simpler than the way the RAW does it. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: |
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That i can get behind..
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That i can get behind.. |
You sound just like my Jedi Master. I think you don't trust my abilities with the lightsaber.
"Look Obi-won, no hands!".  |
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