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DarthMortis
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 124
Location: Moorhead
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Sabre wrote: | | DarthMortis wrote: | | I don't really think that Yoda would get a Darkside point for not telling Luke that his dad was Vader, as well as training him in the ways of the force. It was better for the galaxy at large that Palpatine was killed and that the Empire lost control of the galaxy. It says no where in the book that you get a Darkside point for lying, or telling half truths "Your father was killed by Darth Vader." Is pretty true, Vader himself says that the name Anakin means nothing to him anymore |
So, he was just going to mention that Vader used to be Anakin Skywalker AFTER Luke killed him?
I guess it's best not to chance Luke not sharing the view that they aren't the same person, since Yoda wanted Palpatine and Vader dead. Trivial details like 'I'm sending you to kill your dad' can wait for after the deed is done. No way he'll be upset about it, right? I mean, the guy is beyond redemption, right? |
Neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda really considered Vader and Anakin the same person. Yoda died before he had a chance to tell Luke the trust, and so did Obi-Wan. You can't say that they didn't intend on eventually telling Luke the truth, after they thought that he was ready to learn something like that.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Sabre wrote: | So, he was just going to mention that Vader used to be Anakin Skywalker AFTER Luke killed him?
I guess it's best not to chance Luke not sharing the view that they aren't the same person, since Yoda wanted Palpatine and Vader dead. Trivial details like 'I'm sending you to kill your dad' can wait for after the deed is done. No way he'll be upset about it, right? I mean, the guy is beyond redemption, right? |
I don't think that they ever intended to ever tell Luke, "by the way, Vader was actually Anakin, your father," before or after he "saved the galaxy" from the Emperor and his dog. They only ever spoke the truth to Luke... it is true that Vader and Anakin were not the same person; they were fairly distinct entities with a short period of intermingled crossover, during which time the entity of Vader vanquished the entity of Anakin... he didn't "kill" Anakin, per ce, merely crippled him and left him for dead in a dusty corner of his psyche.
You also have to keep in mind that the Jedi philosophy discards such concepts as biological/family bonds. The father/son relationship has no meaning for those firmly entrenched in the philosophy; besides, the body is simply crude matter, the Force is what's important, and it is in and of everything, family or not. Emotional attachment to concepts like family only provide distraction for Jedi and ultimately provide a foothold for the dark side to gain purchase. Chances are "he's your dad" is a concept that Obi-Wan and Yoda would encourage setting aside even if Anakin were a pillar of light, rather an inky well of darkness.
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enderandrew
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Omaha, NE
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yoda very reluctantly agreed to train Luke, and tried to keep Luke from facing Vader. I don't see how you can claim that Yoda manipulated him to kill anyone.
On a slight tangent, in Episode 1, Yoda is talking to Mace Windu about there being a student and a master, and he looks over to Palpatine.
If Yoda were skilled in Farseeing, is it possible that he knew what was going to happen? I always wondered if Yoda knew more than he let on. Obviously he wasn't very forthcoming, and at times he was outright deceptive. He was also very much against training Anakin, as if he knew what was going to happen.
If he knew of this prophecy to balance the Force, maybe he knew EXACTLY what that meant, but trusted enough in the Force that he didn't go out of his way to change that. Especially for a give who lived through centuries, he felt the best course of action was not to disrupt what was about to happen. Certainly he advised Anakin to see the big picture, even though Anakin knew Padme was going to die.
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Steelin
Cadet
Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Polska
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for bringing up the old topic, but I may change the view of presented situation.
The Republic was in the state of war for a long peroid. Sidious and his men were constantly weakening it. Many people died because of ongoing Clone Wars, many lost their homes or anything. The one, who started it and who was a constant threat for citizens of the Republic, was Darth Sidious with his gang.
By attacking Sidious, Yoda wasn't agressive or offensive. He was trying to protect the people of the Republic from evil Sith plan to rule the galaxy. His actions were indeed defensive, so no DSP for him.  |
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Rasta
Cadet
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | By attacking Sidious, Yoda wasn't agressive or offensive. He was trying to protect the people of the Republic from evil Sith plan to rule the galaxy. His actions were indeed defensive, so no DSP for him. |
Another thing, the Jedi should seek non-violent means to solve the problem first. If the Jedi use violence as a last resort, and do not use excessive force, they should not get a DSP.
Context is everything. Luke gets 2 DSP for choking out the Gamorians at Jabbas Palace. I would not rule that Yoda or Obi Wan do. To me, they are prime examples of "how to act according to the Jedi Code".
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10438
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yoda: "Stopped they must be. On this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the Force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."
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Luke: "Unfortunate that I know the truth?"
Yoda: "No. Unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training. Not ready for the burden were you."
I get from that that the Yoda and Obi-Wan planned on telling Luke the truth, but only after he was a fully trained Jedi Knight.
It was Yoda's opinion that Luke couldn't handle the truth before he was fully trained. Yoda and Obi-Wan believed that Luke may be able to destroy Vader as long as he didn't cross over to the Dark Side himself on the way, and the best way to prevent that would be to be fully trained.
But then of course things changed when Luke went back to Yoda after the rescue of Solo. Luke (the son of the chosen one) had basically completed his own training in between the movies, except for one final test. Obi-Wan had become a Jedi Knight without taking "the trials" because he watched a Dark Lord of the Sith strike down his master and then defeated him without using the Dark Side.
In between the movies, Yoda forsaw that Luke's final trial would be to confront his dark father again without crossing over to the Dark Side himself. So the only way to complete his training would be to confront Vader. Good story drama that way by upping the ante. First he had to not confront Vader to become a Jedi and have the best chance at defeating Vader later, then after being defeated by Vader, he had to confront Vader again to become a Jedi in the first place.
Then the ante is upped further by Luke responding to the knowledge of his parentage with compassion (wanting to save his father's soul). Yoda and Obi-Wan thought that Luke would die if Luke tried to convert Vader back to the Light (and Luke would have if he had failed). And if Luke died, then he would never have completed his training and become a full-fledged Jedi, and there would be no one to pass on the heritage.
There would be no one left to opposed the Sith. When Yoda was still alive, he said that that there was another, but it is suggested by the films that Force Ghosts can occasionally talk to at least some living people, but they can't do much else. If Luke died when Yoda was alive, maybe he could train Leia. But with Yoda dead, it all rested on Luke's next confrontation with Vader. Ghosts can't train Jedi or ObiWan wouldn't have had to send Luke to Dagobah.
In my game world, Luke gained Dark Side points when he attacked Vader in anger after Vader threated to convert his sister to the Dark Side. But before killing in anger and completely crosing over, Luke threw away the saber and passed his trial. And of course Luke's success is the way that Vader came to the point of choosing to be the Jedi again and destroying the Sith.
As far as Yoda getting Dark Side points in the prequels, I don't care what the rule says. I think if you are confronting the most powerful Sith Lord ever and not feeling negative emotions while doing it, you will not earn any Dark Side points. If you want your game to go along better with your interpretation of the films, then please don't feel restricted by the rules as published. It's your game. Rules were meant to be ignored or changed if needed.
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