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Cybernetic... Race?
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PsiberDragon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: Cybernetic... Race? Reply with quote

Ok... I need a little help (... ok, a LOT of help, according to my friends, but that's another story... Wink Very Happy )

I'm looking at running a new game (see elsewhere on the forums), and one of my players wants to play a race out of the D6 Space - Aliens book. Generally, this isn't too big a problem - it takes a couple of minutes for conversions, etc.

My problem is this: he wants to play a Malcharan Jedi/Student of the Force. Malcharans are a cybernetic species - think Iskalloni (*cough*Borg*cough*), but with more and better personality. They're one of the races that the Rebellion has come across in its search for allies...

Basically, the rundown on them is this: their home planet has been a biological wreck for generations, necessitating the use of cybernetics. Over the generations, it's become more and more acceptable, to where anyone who doesn't have cybernetics of some kind is looked on as being mentally deficient. Suffice to say, they're good artisans and excellent warriors.

Normally, I'd just say "No... don't think that'd work"... but, they have an example of a "technowizard" who has Metaphysics (D6 Space version of Force skills)... and it could be an interesting RP plot point...

Any thoughts?
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Phalanks Balas
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well... in SW RPG, Cybernetic prosthesis give affinity with dark side of the Force. The more you have prosthesis the more you have DSP...
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Yak Face
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the proposed cyber jedi gain any advantages from his prostheses that would magnify/multiply his force abilities? If not, I see no reason to deny the option. However, if the cybernetics combined with force use will make him absurdly unbalanced special measures might have to be taken. The cyber points are one approach (to at least force him to behave), but you may need to get creative in terms of making up other inconveniences for him. For example, perhaps the Empire will end up listing the natives of his blighted planet as undesirables, maybe even under quarantine, thereby causing him to attract undue attention from the authorities. Or, if he pipes sensory info into his brain from his implants, perhaps the reliance on those things will make it more difficult (+5, +10) to use force skills aimed at replacing or augmenting the natural senses. Adding difficulties of that nature to the Lightsaber Combat skill would be especially punishing...
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the cybernetics are more of a story factor than a game mechanic, there's no issue really... just treat it like any other race. From the sounds of it, this race's cybernetics are more for maintaining life than enhancing it, so they'd take over bodily functions to allow them to behave normally... that doesn't really do anything but add some text to their descriptions.

If the cybernetics add bonuses to the character, then you get into grey territory. As mentioned before, there are rules in Cynabar's Fantastic Technology (or one of the Fantastic Technology books... I think Cynabar's may be Droids, which would be the wrong one Razz ) covering how to deal with cybernetics and Force users. Essentially, the cybernetics hinder your ability to access the Force and make you more prone to falling to the Dark Side. The more cybernetic enhancements, the more difficult to access the Force and the more likely you are to get DSPs.

However, if the cybernetics offer too many enhancements, you're best off just saying "no".

Remember too that ion weapons could wreak havoc with those with lots of cybernetics... droid disablers and the like could cripple or kill these people Smile
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ifurin
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one thing that may work is to add a jedi reverence to the culture similar to what the barabels have. if the whole society has a cyber-addiction then it would become very hard to tap into the force (as Ankhandu said). they will also fall to the dark-side easer. it wouldn't really be that much of a stretch (assuming they have had enough contact with off-world jedi who don't corrupt so easy) to say that the culture also tries to prevent dark jedi, probably through rehabilitation if they have turned, or through even more rules that what the jedi order impose.
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masque
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I've never liked the anti-cyber bias in Star Wars, and usually toss it (masque likes cybertech, and wants some as soon as he can get some) but in game terms, I'm in agreement with the others. If it ain't game breaking, sounds great. Go for it.
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Xynar
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see why there is a bias against artificial augmentation and replacement. With medical technology available that includes bacta and cloning, there is almost no reason not to be "whole". But before I can make a stand on this race issue, can you provide stats that you will be using and your write up? Then I can put in my two cents about this with possible game balance issues.
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PsiberDragon
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm...

Well... D6 IS open source now...

keep in mind: they don't have a set min/max listed for any of the aliens presented, so I'm extrapolating and converting...

DEX 1D/5D
KNOW 2D/5D
MECH 2D/4D
PER 2D/5D
STR 1D/5D
TECH 2D/5D

Starting dice: 12 (+6 for PC's, of course) - generally the 5D are for specialists in that area - scientists, artists, merc/raiders, etc...

THought I'd start off with one cybernetic part "for free": arms, legs, heart, lungs, etc... anything else, they'd have to buy - and they do prefer cybernetics over organic ('cuz cybernetic parts are better, you see... )

Each part would give a small bonus. Arms would give a bonus to strength (upwards of 1D - mostly for brawling damage), Legs would give faster movement, heart would give a bonus to Stamina rolls, etc...

The problem that a typical Malcharan would have is that, eventually, their parts wear out (blocking, getting hit, Ion guns/grenades...), and finding someone to fix them is: a) costly; and b) time consuming.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then that right there Is an issue as everything cyber as you say is granting bonuses.,.,.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masque wrote:
Personally, I've never liked the anti-cyber bias in Star Wars, and usually toss it...


I dunno, I kind of like it... the galactic societal dislike of cyber-tech (for anything outside of prosthesis replacement or life-support) is an interesting social twist in an otherwise technophilic setting. Yeah, cybernetics exist and can make you stronger, better, etc... but there are ethical and social implications to it. It's an interesting route along an ethical/philosophical path that most Sci-Fi settings don't take.

Couple that with the nature of Star Wars technology (at least in the Classic Star Wars settings, less so in the modern Star Wars settings) being a sort of marriage of the fantastical and old-school analogue technologies, it stands to reason that cybernetics wouldn't be terribly prevalent. For the most part they're large and obvious (ie. Lobot) if they're anything more than a medical replacement (ie. Luke's hand)... it's hard to hide that you're enhanced. Miniaturization is something we have in our real world setting... it's less prevalent in the Star Wars setting; things are big, dirty and even new things are in some state of decay... the galaxy is big, it's old and it functions like something big and old.

garhkal wrote:
Then that right there Is an issue as everything cyber as you say is granting bonuses.,.,.


Yeah, you have to be really careful with granting Force use to a race that is powerful like this one. Using the cybernetics optional rules is a good idea to try and keep some sense of balance to the group... or be prepared for uber powerful cyberJedi running around. While Jedi are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, this is perhaps tipping the scale too far?
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PsiberDragon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the drawbacks would be somewhat obvious:
1 - cybernetic implants (and people that install them) are pretty rare;
2 - Being rare, the cost is gonna be expensive for the character to afford much else;
3 - Ion grenades and cannons are pretty cheap Twisted Evil (ever tried to run with only on leg and 20 pounds of metal strapped to the other, immobile leg? Very Happy)
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Xynar
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PsiberDragon wrote:
keep in mind: they don't have a set min/max listed for any of the aliens presented, so I'm extrapolating and converting...


Not a problem. Do they get compared to humans attribute wise? It makes the conversion easier.

PsiberDragon wrote:
DEX 1D/5D
KNOW 2D/5D
MECH 2D/4D
PER 2D/5D
STR 1D/5D
TECH 2D/5D

Starting dice: 12 (+6 for PC's, of course) - generally the 5D are for specialists in that area - scientists, artists, merc/raiders, etc...


I have a few players that would love playing this race. I would make all mins 1D and all maxs 5D. This way, it explains why they want to use cyberware. They could be really strong but not very good with hand eye coordination (like down right suck - 1D) and want to bring themselves up to normal or better.

PsiberDragon wrote:
THought I'd start off with one cybernetic part "for free": arms, legs, heart, lungs, etc... anything else, they'd have to buy - and they do prefer cybernetics over organic ('cuz cybernetic parts are better, you see... )

Each part would give a small bonus. Arms would give a bonus to strength (upwards of 1D - mostly for brawling damage), Legs would give faster movement, heart would give a bonus to Stamina rolls, etc...


This is the biggest problem. I would remind the player that some force powers would stop working since they cannot affect the cybernetic parts. Like magnify senses, enhance attribute, and absorb/dissipate energy just to name a few. Do the cybernetics augment skills or attributes?

PsiberDragon wrote:
The problem that a typical Malcharan would have is that, eventually, their parts wear out (blocking, getting hit, Ion guns/grenades...), and finding someone to fix them is: a) costly; and b) time consuming.


Just like owning a ship. The concept is almost the same. Need new parts? Find outlaw doc. Need money for them? Find loanshark.
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masque
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhanu wrote:
masque wrote:
Personally, I've never liked the anti-cyber bias in Star Wars, and usually toss it...


I dunno, I kind of like it... the galactic societal dislike of cyber-tech (for anything outside of prosthesis replacement or life-support) is an interesting social twist in an otherwise technophilic setting. Yeah, cybernetics exist and can make you stronger, better, etc... but there are ethical and social implications to it. It's an interesting route along an ethical/philosophical path that most Sci-Fi settings don't take.

OK, I wasn't clear. I have no problem with the social anti-cyber bias in the Star Wars universe. I enjoy that roleplaying aspect, dealing with the ethical and social implications, particularly with obvious cybernetics, and having to be treated as an outcast. To me, that part of it is fun as hell.

What I have a philosophical problem with are the game mechanic that reduces one's humanity (or Rodianity, Wookieeanity, etc...) when one gets cybered up, that it makes one a lesser being. But I'm a bit of a transhumanist, I think it doesn't matter if you're carbon or silicon based, or some mixture of the two, if you have sapience, nothing else matters. That goes for "people" who exist entirely in software, as well.

To me, there's enough drawbacks to being cybered up, ion cannons for one, as someone else mentioned, social and reaction penalties (I have no problem with that kind of mechanic) that one doesn't need an additional layer of punishment. With Wookiee's and Barabels running around, it's not like Star Wars is balanced, anyway, so I don't see cybertech as mechanically different, or deleterious to Force users. The two most famous Force users in the entire Star Wars canon were both cyborgs, after all.

Basically, I have no problem with everyone thinking a cyborg is inferior, I just have a problem with the rules making it true. But I can't wait for cyborg parts for personal use to become available, either. It's no coincidence I have Lobot as my icon.
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