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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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 Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: |
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The only thing good about SW D20 is being able to convert it for use in SW D6. I so much prefer D6.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4853
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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I think that's something that people forget all too quickly, Hellcat. Even if you don't like d20, it's still good for Star Wars roleplaying, and that's good for us. WotC producing books again is a great thing. Even if you don't like the system, you've got people converting stats for you, and WotC has given you the ability to buy cheap pre-painted minis for help in combat.
I'm still calling it a win even if I'm not playing their system. |
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I hate d20 Star Wars, but I own and love some of their books. Very useful in my D6 campaigns, not only for converted stats, but also for fluff, especially the planets ones.
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Golbez
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 102
Location: Fort McMurray Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I've played it, and it is playable.
d20 in general is amazing, as it and WoTC have revived PnPing to a height never before reached, which means more material for us to read through and adapt.
For SW D6 is my favorite, all the reasons have already been said, I just like it better. |
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TheDoctor
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 150
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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like I said, I refuse to spend on red cent on d20, it's kind of a one man boycott I guess. I'd really like the b@st@rd* to go under because they don't care about a product that delivers a good game experience, they only care about producing something that encourages you to buy, buy BUY!
By the way, isn't WOTC now Hasbro?
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4853
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| TheDoctor wrote: | | like I said, I refuse to spend on red cent on d20, it's kind of a one man boycott I guess. I'd really like the b@st@rd* to go under because they don't care about a product that delivers a good game experience, they only care about producing something that encourages you to buy, buy BUY! |
You're going to have a hard time selling that one to me. When you say "Wizards of the Coast" in reference to Star Wars you're saying Gary Sarli and Rodney Thompson. They're two down to earth guys who started off writing articles because they love roleplaying and love Star Wars. Rodney still administrates the SW RPG Network, a free site where he's contributed some of his own work. There's a ton of other freelancers going to work for them, but these are the two guys that make the new books happen. Knowing even just a little about how they work, it's hard for me to see how "they don't care about the product." |
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| TheDoctor wrote: | | ...they only care about producing something that encourages you to buy, buy BUY! |
Doesn't that kind of cover almost every company out there?? That what businesses do; they exploit consumers.
But I would disagree with you that WoTC doesn't care about creating a good gaming experience. Yes, I agree that they've failed with Star Wars, but, personally, I think they've done good things with the Dungeons and Dragons franchise. They've also done good things with some of their other lines, and some of their CCGs. I've heard good things about three dragon ante (or whatever it's called) too.
Yes, they're mostly out to push out products so that people will buy them... every company does that; WEG put out a tonne of books... why? So that you'd buy them and give them money. 
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TheDoctor
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 150
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | TheDoctor wrote: | | like I said, I refuse to spend on red cent on d20, it's kind of a one man boycott I guess. I'd really like the b@st@rd* to go under because they don't care about a product that delivers a good game experience, they only care about producing something that encourages you to buy, buy BUY! |
You're going to have a hard time selling that one to me. When you say "Wizards of the Coast" in reference to Star Wars you're saying Gary Sarli and Rodney Thompson. They're two down to earth guys who started off writing articles because they love roleplaying and love Star Wars. Rodney still administrates the SW RPG Network, a free site where he's contributed some of his own work. There's a ton of other freelancers going to work for them, but these are the two guys that make the new books happen. Knowing even just a little about how they work, it's hard for me to see how "they don't care about the product." |
That may be the case with Sarli and Thompson currently, but I was very disenchanted with the first SW D20 since it was obviously D&D 3 with the Star Wars label slapped on it.
Granted Sarli and Thompson are doing a good work and care about what they're doing, I just don't get the impression that Hasbro or possibly even WOTC as a company really seems to give a hoot.
At least WEG, when they upgraded their rule system through 2nd Rev & E released references to convert 1st ed material for free.
Granted I may not be privy to the current details or personages, WOTC's half-assed first release has turned me off completely for a good while.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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And if the argument is based on the fact that the SAGA book encourages you to buy the minis, well... WEG is even more guilty of that sort of behaivior. It's hard to read through one of their later books without them saying (For more information on this, please refer to Insert Book Title Here)."
Their books are loaded with opportunities to buy other books. And the New WotC books don't even have advertisements in the back. |
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TheDoctor
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 150
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | And if the argument is based on the fact that the SAGA book encourages you to buy the minis, well... WEG is even more guilty of that sort of behaivior. It's hard to read through one of their later books without them saying (For more information on this, please refer to Insert Book Title Here)."
Their books are loaded with opportunities to buy other books. And the New WotC books don't even have advertisements in the back. |
Well, more to the point that the release of SAGA seems to imply that everything beforehand from WOTC is obsolete.
To be honest, it's not even necessarily the SW RPG specifically, but Hasbro and WOTC in general.
If I might diverge, I got into Magic when it first came out and got out of it not more than two years later. I haven't really cared for WOTC since, but that's just my opinion. I hate the concept of the CCG, especially Decipher's SW CCG. That's another Mynock nest though.
I hate disclaimers, but remember, these are just my OPINIONS. If you happen to disagree, no matter how passionately, please don't mind them too much as anyone is welcome to harbor the opinion that I am a complete idiot. A lot of people have that opinion and I have a personality defect in which it seems to bother me less and less as time goes on.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I hate disclaimers, but remember, these are just my OPINIONS. If you happen to disagree, no matter how passionately, please don't mind them too much as anyone is welcome to harbor the opinion that I am a complete idiot. A lot of people have that opinion and I have a personality defect in which it seems to bother me less and less as time goes on. |
I hope that you didn't take my posts to imply that you're an idiot. I certainly don't hold that position. I just disagree and stated reasons for doing so. (It's an occupational hazard of being a philosophy and ethics professor.)
If you want to dislike Wizards, go for it. I've never played Magic (with the exception of once or twice with members of my church), and I didn't invest much in the OCR or RCR. Whenever I did, I just bought it to convert it to D6. I didn't loose anything in the transition of systems. |
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Doomhead
Commander
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Location: In the Heart of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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For what its worth or not worth-
I just can't get over the hack and slash mentality of the D20 system, kill X bad guy and get X amount of stuff... boring! Also, the minis are not the cheapest things in the world... The books are somewhat expensive... and whenever you say you have a level 80 Jedi.... um, well its just stupid. I agree that it has its place and its fans and your welcome to it (not to belittle anyone or anything) but its just not for me... where else can you break open an old monopoly game, pillage the dice, take one book a piece of paper and have a game going... is that even possible with D20? Plus, I'm just not a fan of Hasbro/WTC!!!
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TheDoctor
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 150
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Quote: |
I hate disclaimers, but remember, these are just my OPINIONS. If you happen to disagree, no matter how passionately, please don't mind them too much as anyone is welcome to harbor the opinion that I am a complete idiot. A lot of people have that opinion and I have a personality defect in which it seems to bother me less and less as time goes on. |
I hope that you didn't take my posts to imply that you're an idiot. I certainly don't hold that position. I just disagree and stated reasons for doing so. (It's an occupational hazard of being a philosophy and ethics professor.)
If you want to dislike Wizards, go for it. I've never played Magic (with the exception of once or twice with members of my church), and I didn't invest much in the OCR or RCR. Whenever I did, I just bought it to convert it to D6. I didn't loose anything in the transition of systems. |
Nah, no worries.
I'm just a bit opinionated at times and would imagine that people can find me a little obnoxious. I don't mean to be, but oh well.
I guess in general I find WOTC/Hasbro to be sickenly commercial unlike WEG and what was formerly TSR.
And okay, WEG did hawk their own stuff, but when they still had the license, I never felt that I HAD to purchase a given book besides the rule book to have an enjoyable game.
Getting back to the main thread, in terms purely of rules (commercialism aside), I think D6 is far more flexible and more suited to Space Opera.
Selecting among about ten or so different classes and five races (give or take) seems to work for D&D, but I don't think that kind of system works for Star Wars given the multitude of "professions" and races a galaxy can fill.
I have mixed feelings about D&D 3.0 and 3.5 to begin with. I like how they streamlined the rules from AD&D 2nd ed., but +2 this and -1 that and power combo this made feel like I was playing Magic again (I became disenchanted with Magic mainly because everything seemed to be broken down to +2 this and -1 that).
When it comes down to it, the multitude of rules and systems in the D20 systems seems to more clearly define the result of a given attempt by a character to do something, whereas D6 seems to put more responsibility on the GMs imagination to resolve an action. I think D20 (particularly D&D) is a good system for a beginning GM to learn from, but D6 is a more flexible system.
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masque
Captain
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I myself haven't bought any of the WOTC books, as everything I could possibly need in them has been converted to D6, usually by people on this forum. Even the converted stuff hasn't been used by me yet, not because I think they're bad conversions, but because I have no interest in playing in the prequel era or the Yuuzhan Vong era, which seems to be where most of the original WOTC stuff comes from. I have bought a bunch of their minis, but I use them with my D6 game, as well as arranging them nicely on my shelf and whatnot.
I don't particularly like some of WOTC's business practices, but I don't buy their books for the simple reason that I think their games suck, be it Star Wars OR D&D.
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Xynar
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Northwest Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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My take of D6 vs d20 stems from the fact that in D6, Jedi were powerful game mechanically speaking because... well Jedi are actually powerful compared to norms and even heroes. In d20, they had to "balance" it out in the game mechanics. D6 treated the balance as a complete experience. You want to play uber powerful character, sure thing, just follow this ethics code and don't be evil. If you turn evil, GM has a new baddie. In d20, playing a Dark Jedi just seems to lose the true Star Wars feel. But then again, that's just me.
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