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Gry Sarth
Jedi
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Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Being badass with just your own skills is much more satisfying. I feel being badass with a FP cheapens it a little.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | Being badass with just your own skills is much more satisfying. I feel being badass with a FP cheapens it a little. |
Exactly my sentiment. I mean, it's kinda neat to make that "I'll use a Force Point" call, but it's ultimately more satisfying to do it on your cunning and base skill levels alone.
Plus, when you finally do use that Force Point, that mitt full of dice is more satisfying because you're not doing it all the time... Any time I've used that Force Point, it's been a pretty satisfying experience to count all those dice up. I imagine it would lose that edge somewhat if I did it frequently.
But, if that's your scene, knock yourself out.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| slaughterj wrote: | | Sometimes even when using FP one can fail as well though.... |
Very true, as some find out when i gm... Just cause you spent the FP does not mean you are guaranteed to succeed at the action.. The dice still decide.
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vong
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Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | Being badass with just your own skills is much more satisfying. I feel being badass with a FP cheapens it a little. |
I dont think so. I use FP to do stuff my chr on his own would be impossible to do. so its still bad @$$ 
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noctum_carpe
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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Location: Lidköping, Sweden
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Expendable Hero
Ensign
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| I whore my force points like crazy. If I'm using it something went horribly wrong. Most of my players are the same way so it works out for me. The only time I've ever had trouble with that is when a GM decides to give some of the NPCs force points and use them all at once. Only once has that happened and I still feel it was cheep. As far as getting force points back my rule is that if you use them in relatively fair fight to kill off the dark Jedi or whatever even though you don't need to you get nothing back for it. Or at best only regain what you have. I give out force points when players take on a situation that is obviously above there skill or will get them in worlds of trouble and do it anyway because it is the right thing to do. As far as CPs go I feel that if characters are burning through them all the time perhaps its time to stop and ask how your balance is. If the players just really run into a run of bad luck and have to use all the CPs they have I have no qualms about giving out extra at the end of the game so long as they weren't just using them pointlessly. |
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slaughterj
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | Quite right. The only difference is what "from time to time" means to each of us. For some it might be every other adventure, for some every other year. |
That goes back to my Premise No. 2 above ("Premise 2. Heroic actions/situations are the stuff adventures in the SW genre are made of."). To me, heroic events should occur every adventure, or at least most, because that's the point of the genre. |
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slaughterj
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | slaughterj wrote: | | Spending a FP lets a character be a truly heroic badass for a round, which is something most PCs would relish |
I've been pretty badass without Force Points though  Just takes some oblique thinking sometimes. |
| Gry Sarth wrote: | | Being badass with just your own skills is much more satisfying. I feel being badass with a FP cheapens it a little. |
| Ankhanu wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | Being badass with just your own skills is much more satisfying. I feel being badass with a FP cheapens it a little. |
Exactly my sentiment. |
I understand what you are saying, but I think we are on a different page when evaluating whether something is heroic or not. To me, heroic means going above and beyond one's typical skills - if something is able to be routinely accomplished through one's own skills, then it is almost by definition mundane (e.g., even an complex gymnastic act might be beyond your skills, it is mundane for a trained gymnist). Therefore, while you might be able to accomplish "routine" level acts of heroism by your characters based on their base skills, to accomplish truly difficult and heroic actions, a Force point is often required, to rise to the higher level and accomplish acts beyond your normal skills. |
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slaughterj
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | Being badass with just your own skills is much more satisfying. I feel being badass with a FP cheapens it a little. |
I dont think so. I use FP to do stuff my chr on his own would be impossible to do. so its still bad @$$ |
Exactly. |
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I would say your evaluation of what we consider to be heroics is... incorrect  But yeah, heroics is situational. Simply getting into situations that have DCs higher than you should be able to roll with your die pool is not heroics, in my estimation, however. It's intense, yes, but heroic?? Not necessarily.
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Gry Sarth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, now I see a little bit why we're walking in circles. Your definition of "heroic" has absolutely nothing to do with mine. As I understand it, for you it's more like a "super-human action", it's performing a feat you should not be able to accomplish under normal circumstances, it's something that leaves bystanders wondering "How the heck did he DO that?!". While as for me, "heroic" has nothing to do with the specific action you perform, or how amazingly you pull it off. Heroic for me is facing a situation or obstacle that may be way over your head, but still tackling it. It's not giving up in spite of the odds, it's self-sacrifice, it's dealing with the consequences of you actions. The action itself could be quite mundane and still the situation would be heroic. It could simply be your character deciding to side with the Rebels even though that will cost you your mining facility and put Vader on your track, all to save an old friend. Or it could be flying into a space battle and knocking out a couple of unsuspecting ships to give your friend a clean shot at the thermal exhaust port. The action itself doesn't have to be impossibly difficult (it can be, though, adds a bit of flavor), what counts is the situation.
Of course, that's ME. I'm just trying to make things clear.
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Gry Sarth
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Joined: 25 May 2004
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Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| slaughterj wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | Quite right. The only difference is what "from time to time" means to each of us. For some it might be every other adventure, for some every other year. |
That goes back to my Premise No. 2 above ("Premise 2. Heroic actions/situations are the stuff adventures in the SW genre are made of."). To me, heroic events should occur every adventure, or at least most, because that's the point of the genre. |
Clarification. I wasn't saying that heroic situations could occur every other year, I was saying that the decision to spend a Force Point in said situations could be that rare.
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Matthias777
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're both right---the way I see it, there are two types of heroism. There's being in situations where you have no other alternative other than to implement a skill at a level far surpassing your greatest efforts without the Force stepping in and helping you out in a big way (Luke firing the shot that killed the first Death Star). That's one. Then there's character heroism, as described by Gry in his posts immediately preceding mine. Both are valid acts of heroism, and I think that both are integral to the essence of Star Wars.
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vong
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | slaughterj wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | Quite right. The only difference is what "from time to time" means to each of us. For some it might be every other adventure, for some every other year. |
That goes back to my Premise No. 2 above ("Premise 2. Heroic actions/situations are the stuff adventures in the SW genre are made of."). To me, heroic events should occur every adventure, or at least most, because that's the point of the genre. |
Clarification. I wasn't saying that heroic situations could occur every other year, I was saying that the decision to spend a Force Point in said situations could be that rare. |
Indeed. Your original definition of heroic is still heroic to me, just not the "over the top" heroic
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slaughterj
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree that heroism can occur at "different" levels, but the over-the-top events in the movies (e.g., successfly flying down the tunnel on the Death Star while under attack and accurately firing torpedos to destroy it, etc. etc.) are the sorts of things that should arise in a typical SW game and would often require the use of a properly spent Force point to have a reasonably likely degree of success. |
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