Spending Character Points to Boost Rolls

[ifurin]

i have never had players who said or thought "this is a heroic situation i must use a force point!" most of my players have seen a "dramatically appropriate situation" as one that they don't think they will be able to get through with out a little "help." i had one player in a high speed swoop chase (he was chasing the bad guys), he had a 17D specialty in his swoop. when the bad guy pulled out his vibroaxe and cut through the supports for a balcony with people on it the player pulled a stunt where he stopped the chase to do a u-turn, stand his swoop up to support the balcony until the people could get off and he managed to strategically place his swoop so he could catch the one person who fell off the edge. he didn't say "this is an appropriately dramatic time i'll use a force point," he thought he could do it on his one, and he did. in another situation my players had to escort a nobleman's' family from one city to another, durring the trip they were ambushed by a a pack of wild animals that could easily kill a human in one bite. here was 8 of the animals, after two of the players drooped during the battle the one remaining character decided to use a force point. he managed to kill or scare off the animals, save the family, and even managed to save one of the downed players. his melee combat skill was 6D+2, the force point was needed in his opinion. FP's are not like water, you don't just drop then when you feel like it.

[garhkal]

Very true. i know some who horad them and only spend them for saving their asses or others.. And others who spend them every combat.
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[Reyus Graven]

I only ever used a force point to survive a massive explosive. Sadly a jawa in an exploding factory is as good as dead. Sadly I almost made it high enough to be mortally wounded and not dead. I knew it wasn't going to come back to me for selfish reasons but being dead is worse right. After the tense bluffing and the ensuing fire fight it was worth it just to see if i could have gotten my jawa out of there. Or at least the last person to die. Least I took them all with me


You can be in a heroic situation spend a force point selfishly. I think it was a good spend for the sake of it all but it really is such a good thing you want to hold on to um for a special moment. Character points are just the same though. Every point I spend is something i have to lose from my character in advancement. I think that neither is very trivial. Really i guess its how stingy a GM is will determine how trivial or important to you spending points are.
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[slaughterj]

[Gry Sarth]

In the C case, which I believe is what's going on with most of us here, why should players be educated to spend FP more freely? How is the game improved simply because people are educated to rely more often on an instant, very powerful, and basically free bonus?

Plus, I don't think anybody's priding themselves over their FP policy, we're just sharing our different views and experiences.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Ankhanu]

Yup, no pride is placed in the fact that we haven't used many Force Points... absolutely no shame either. I guess my groups and I haven't been in it for the quick fix, short term immediate bonuses. We play differently, I'm cool with that
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[ifurin]

[slaughterj]

Here's a syllogism:

Premise 1. Actions of heroic nature are often difficult to undertake successfully.
Premise 2. Heroic actions/situations are the stuff adventures in the SW genre are made of.
Premise 3. Force points are useful (and frequently necessary) to successfully accomplish heroic actions.

Conclusion: In SW adventures, characters frequently face heroic situations that require heroic actions, and force points facilitate success at those heroic actions.

Any disagreement on the premises or the conclusion that follows?

It's not just about educating players, it is also about educating GMs to run adventures that involve heroic action, a staple of the SW genre. While games can be run otherwise in SW, e.g., purely mercenary games, etc., that isn't what the genre or game system are primarily directed at (those games are fine, probably fun, etc., just not the focus, much like a system designed for 4-color supers could be used for street level vigilante games but might be directed to use for such). But players also need to understand this, to realize when confronted with truly difficult situations that result in need for heroic action, that spending a Force point in such situations is quite appropriate and recommended.

[Ankhanu]

I think we just disagree on what situations actually warrant the use of a Force Point. We all know that heroics is an important theme of Star Wars; we all play games that put the characters in situations where heroism is possible or required... just some of us try to figure out how to get through those situations with our character's normal abilities without Force Point augmentation, reserving them for truly pivotal moments of do or die. Others look at them like you do, as an easy mechanic to take advantage to more easily accomplish an "heroic" task. It's less an issue of education or people playing the game incorrectly and entirely stylistic.

Being stylistic, people will go about their games and how they deal with heroism differently.

So your point 3 and how it's dealt with is the only point of contention.
Yes, Force Points are useful in getting through an heroic situation... but they're not always necessary, and some of us don't automatically resort to them, preferring to pit our character's abilities against the situation to prevail, resorting to Force Points only when necessary.

Useful vs. Necessary
Style choices.
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[Gry Sarth]

I concur with honorable Ankhanu.

Premises 1 and 2 are fine, it's on 3 that things get a little hazy.

Force points are useful? You bet! Necessary? No, never. They are an option, but they are never necessary, in the sense that if you don't use them the game doesn't work. You can use them if you feel like, but you can just as well try to deal with it on your own. Sure, you stand a great chance of failing, but what's wrong with that? Did Luke beat Vader on Bespin? No. Did Leia and Chewie stop Boba before he could escape with frozen Han? No. Did Leia rescue Han from Jabba's palace? No. These were all critically heroic moments, and yet the heroes failed in all of them, and many others. It just makes their victories that much better.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[vong]

[garhkal]

[slaughterj]

Sometimes even when using FP one can fail as well though...

Spending a FP lets a character be a truly heroic badass for a round, which is something most PCs would relish (not to mention, the opportunity to earn an extra one if the situation is dramatically appropriate), so presuming everyone is providing opportunities for heroism in their SW games, then it seems that plenty of PCs would find those opportunities to be worthwhile to spend FP in from time to time, to accomplish truly heroic actions, not just getting by (or seriously risking failure) on their "natural" abilities.

[Gry Sarth]

Quite right. The only difference is what "from time to time" means to each of us. For some it might be every other adventure, for some every other year.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Ankhanu]