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Esoomian
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Karae wrote: | | I'm writing up the session notes atm, and when I've finished that, I'll post what happened here. |
Please do I'd love to hear about the groups (mis)adventures
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masque
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But just being force sensitive does not automatically make one force using. |
I use the terms interchangeably, as I've never seen a player take on the disadvantages of being sensitive without eventually going for the benefits of using the Force. I'm at work, so I can't look up whether the rules distinguish between sensitives and users as regards the benefits of DSPs.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think they do. Though there should be a difference, logically, between conscious use of the benefits and not being aware of it.
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Karae
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Okay 
Now I've slept some, and can think a little more clearly, here's what happened..
The wookie left the room with the Gammorean and the group's Con-man, while the two were bartering deals back and forth (I.e. the Gammorean wasn't a threat).
The Con-man then procedes to try and shoot the Gammorean, and after 2 rounds, I let the 2 concious PCs (the wookie, and a female Jedi), check their perception, to notice the blaster fire, through a closed door.
The Female Jedi notices something amiss, so she goes back to investigate.
After she gets there, she tries to convince the Con-man not to kill/injure/harm the Gammorean any more, which the player ignores.
Finally, the Con-man incapacitates, then coup de gras the unresisting Gammorean with a vibroblade.
I gave the wookie a DSP, because all the way through this, even when the door was open, he didn't take any action to see what was happening, even when he could hear the other jedi trying to stop what was happening.
I didn't give the female Jedi a DSP, because she did -try-. It's not her fault that the Con-man was being a jack@$$*..
Opinions? |
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Esoomian
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Did the conman get a DSP or is he not force sensitive?
Seems fair enough if the female jedi did her best to stop the slaughter.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | Did the conman get a DSP or is he not force sensitive?
Seems fair enough if the female jedi did her best to stop the slaughter. |
Agreed.
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | Did the conman get a DSP or is he not force sensitive?
Seems fair enough if the female jedi did her best to stop the slaughter. |
Agreed. |
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Karae
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, the Conman isn't force sensitive, and as he'd used his Force Point in one of the earlier sessions, he couldn't use it here, and so I couldn't give him a DSP, even though he was the one most deserving of one 
Bad things are going to be happening to him anyway, in the next couple of gaming sessions, as long as the players stay somewhere vaguely on track for me starting the true storyline, rather than having them bum around, and -trying- to get them to start working as a team.
The fact that the Conman seems willing to sell the rest of the party out at the drop of a hat, or to get them in trouble, then leave them there without support is starting to wrinkle on a few characters, so I'm going to be introducing some stuff which -hopefully- will reign his.. ?enthusiasm? in a little. |
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Xynar
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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Location: Northwest Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Karae wrote: | | Unfortunately, the Conman isn't force sensitive, and as he'd used his Force Point in one of the earlier sessions, he couldn't use it here, and so I couldn't give him a DSP, even though he was the one most deserving of one |
He should still get one. It doesn't affect a non-force sensetive as much but he should still get one.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Karae wrote: | | The fact that the Conman seems willing to sell the rest of the party out at the drop of a hat, or to get them in trouble, then leave them there without support is starting to wrinkle on a few characters, so I'm going to be introducing some stuff which -hopefully- will reign his.. ?enthusiasm? in a little. |
Both Han and Lando kind of fit this sort of bill at the introduction of their characters... and they transformed into terrific heroes... could happen here too
And yeah, it's possible to award DSPs to non-Force sensitives if you feel the acts they've committed are heinous enough. Killing in cold blood could be one of those reasons.
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masque
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Xynar wrote: | | He should still get one. It doesn't affect a non-force sensetive as much but he should still get one. |
I disagree. For one, I don't think what he did meets the requirements for extreme evil that non-FS people have to meet for getting DSPs. He's not committing atrocities, he's just being a dick. For another, DSPs don't really mean anything to a non-FS character. He might even enjoy receiving them. You can assign them all you want, but unless there are consequences that affect the player's fun, the player will keep doing what he's doing.
I would punish the character in game, just have a bunch of bad stuff happen to him until the player figures out that if he wants to have some fun, he should act differently. Worse comes to worse, put him in a situation where the character gets killed off.
I have very little tolerance for disruptive players.
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well, a very easy plot device, building off of what happened is trouble with the law for all three characters. I mean, there was a murder, someone's going to find out and chances are those three will be linked by witnesses either entering or leaving the area...
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Karae wrote: | Okay
Now I've slept some, and can think a little more clearly, here's what happened..
The wookie left the room with the Gammorean and the group's Con-man, while the two were bartering deals back and forth (I.e. the Gammorean wasn't a threat).
The Con-man then procedes to try and shoot the Gammorean, and after 2 rounds, I let the 2 concious PCs (the wookie, and a female Jedi), check their perception, to notice the blaster fire, through a closed door.
The Female Jedi notices something amiss, so she goes back to investigate.
After she gets there, she tries to convince the Con-man not to kill/injure/harm the Gammorean any more, which the player ignores.
Finally, the Con-man incapacitates, then coup de gras the unresisting Gammorean with a vibroblade.
I gave the wookie a DSP, because all the way through this, even when the door was open, he didn't take any action to see what was happening, even when he could hear the other jedi trying to stop what was happening.
I didn't give the female Jedi a DSP, because she did -try-. It's not her fault that the Con-man was being a jack@$$..
Opinions? |
From this it seemed all that female jedi did wsa ask him to stop... She did not intervene... at least in my opinion. Now had she done something like step in the path, or try to grapple the conman, to prevent him, then yes no DSP. BUT it seems all she did was stand back and talk... I do not consider that attempting to stop him..
| Quote: | | I disagree. For one, I don't think what he did meets the requirements for extreme evil that non-FS people have to meet for getting DSPs. He's not committing atrocities, he's just being a dick. For another, DSPs don't really mean anything to a non-FS character. He might even enjoy receiving them. You can assign them all you want, but unless there are consequences that affect the player's fun, the player will keep doing what he's doing. |
So the roll a D6 and if less than your DSP total or turn is not a concequence to you??
And what do you consider attrocities? Killing a helpless person is listed in the book as one of the ways to get a DSP>
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Karae
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | From this it seemed all that female jedi did wsa ask him to stop... She did not intervene... at least in my opinion. Now had she done something like step in the path, or try to grapple the conman, to prevent him, then yes no DSP. BUT it seems all she did was stand back and talk... I do not consider that attempting to stop him.. |
The female Jedi has been roleplaying for 6 weeks (total), so her player is still trying to find his feet, and work out what stuff's all about. Normally, he'd have an experienced (20+ years experience) gamer sat next to him, but he's having fun in Rome atm
| garhkal wrote: | So the roll a D6 and if less than your DSP total or turn is not a concequence to you??
And what do you consider attrocities? Killing a helpless person is listed in the book as one of the ways to get a DSP> |
Not to get into stuck into it, or anything, but I think this is kinda hashing over old ground, isn't it?
There's several posts about Non-FS characters and DSP's on the forums..
Personally, I don't think that applying "Turning" to Non-FS characters is appropriate for anything other than a game mechanism to show players that their actions have been unwise/disruptive.
I figure that if they go out of their way to disturb the game, or are constantly butting heads with the other characters, there are easier ways to deal with them, than giving them DSPs, which they might see as some kind of challenge ("Ooh.. How many DSPs can I get before the GM gets fed up?") |
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masque
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Edited my post some, to better illustrate my thoughts.
| garhkal wrote: |
So the roll a D6 and if less than your DSP total or turn is not a concequence to you?? |
To me, yes. However, it's my opinion that a player showing such a blatant disregard for the other players is probably not going to think much of it. It's going to take quite a few DSP-worthy acts before he's at a serious risk of losing his character, and that route of disciplining the player will take way too long, allowing him to disrupt the game for a long time. Making things difficult for the character now, DSP or no, is more effective in my view.
Even if the character does turn to the Dark Side, what's the point, if he's not Force sensitive? Sure, you take him away from the player, and can turn him into a bad guy, but then what? It's not like he's going to turn into a Dark Jedi or anything.
I'm of the opinion that the use of Dark Side points is a decent mechanic for Force-users, and can be used to great effect to enhance their story in the game, it's a good mechanical representation of the moral quandaries they face on their path to mastery, but the most interesting parts of the mechanic don't apply to those who aren't sensitive to the Force, and giving them DSPs doesn't really do anything other than say "naughty player, you get a demerit." I think that's superfluous, and a disservice to the Jedi/FS characters, and so yeah, for the most part, I disregard them for mundanes.
If a player is doing things horrible enough to merit DSPs, I can reign them in much more effectively through my actions over the course of running the game. Frankly, that'll end up contributing more to the story than a point on a character sheet and a die roll that might cause them to lose their character (which is all non-FS characters have to face). If they're being really disruptive, I'll take their character sheet away, tear it up, and tell them to get out. I don't need DSPs to authorize me to do so, I'm the GM. I don't tolerate that kind of behavior, and fortunately, I don't have a group prone to it.
| Quote: | | And what do you consider attrocities? Killing a helpless person is listed in the book as one of the ways to get a DSP. |
I have to know more about the exact situation, but helpless to me usually involves someone who is incapacitated. Knocked out, tied up, etc. A sneak attack, while not great, isn't the same thing, otherwise my characters and all the characters of my fellow players would have a hell of a lot more DSPs, just on sniping Stormtroopers alone.
| Karae wrote: | Personally, I don't think that applying "Turning" to Non-FS characters is appropriate for anything other than a game mechanism to show players that their actions have been unwise/disruptive.
I figure that if they go out of their way to disturb the game, or are constantly butting heads with the other characters, there are easier ways to deal with them, than giving them DSPs, which they might see as some kind of challenge ("Ooh.. How many DSPs can I get before the GM gets fed up?") |
Exactly.
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