| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Now THAT'S not cool.
I certainly don't expect everyone I game with to have the same (or better) level of knowledge that I have. Sure, it'd help for them to know those background details, but let's face it- not everyone who dons the GM cap has gone and read all the books like I have, or spent time on great boards like this one where I pick up that kind of knowledge, so I'm willing to cut some slack there.
But to completely ignore a botched roll? The guy BETTER have pulled off some super-sweet ROLEplaying... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Indeed. There is the other side of the issue. No matter how splendid an argument the player came up with, how masterfully he delivered his speech and all that, if he rolls all 1s, then it's a failure. It means his character might have stuttered at the wrong time and made his speech ring false, or was careless at some point and mentioned something he shouldn't have. Anyway, he messed up a perfectly good plan.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Like i have said elsewhere here. Sometimes i have been under screwy gms, who let personal preferances play a part in their decisions...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool McCool
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gry Sarth wrote: | | It's not about impressing the GM, it's about comitting to the game. You don't need to be a great actor or incredibly cunning just because your character is meant to be those things, but you have to at least TRY. Make an effort. Don't just roll the dice and expect some magic. |
That's cool.
Hey, what would you think about this: Player says, "I want to get by the guards." Then he rolls. Then he has to "roleplay" (i.e. act out in character) what he says. The roll is modified based on how hard he tries to roleplay.
_________________
Still funky after all these years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool McCool
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Like i have said elsewhere here. Sometimes i have been under screwy gms, who let personal preferances play a part in their decisions... |
I have been a screwy GM at times, and I want to avoid doing that. Setting up the rules that make it next to impossible for me to screw around is the best way I know how.
_________________
Still funky after all these years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cool McCool wrote: | That's cool.
Hey, what would you think about this: Player says, "I want to get by the guards." Then he rolls. Then he has to "roleplay" (i.e. act out in character) what he says. The roll is modified based on how hard he tries to roleplay. |
That's pretty much what I'm advocating here. However I don't see how you would modify his roll based on his roleplaying if he only roleplays AFTER the roll...
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Perhaps you could give a bonus to the npc guard's resistance roll, based on how he ole played...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Or perhaps a series of rolls to balance the whole thing out, especially if it becomes a whole scene that gets played out. The longer it takes, the more rolls I'd think ought to happen, and if the player's making a concerted effort to roleplay it out (even if they suck) I'd consider giving them a bonus as a reward for the effort. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool McCool
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gry Sarth wrote: | | That's pretty much what I'm advocating here. However I don't see how you would modify his roll based on his roleplaying if he only roleplays AFTER the roll... |
Pretty simple.
You both roll; the dice are sitting there. Either the PC has "already" lost or won.
If he's won: "Tell me what you say." If he puts a lot into his description, you don't modify it (or maybe give the player's roll a bonus - that can be important, I'll explain what I'm thinking of at the end of the post).
If he doesn't put a lot into the description, then you modify the PC's roll down. This may mean that he fails.
Wrinkle: The player might roll so well that he doesn't need to roleplay at all. I'd still modify his roll - I'll cover that at the end of the post too.
If he's lost: "Tell me what you say." If he puts a lot into his roleplaying, then you modify his roll. This may change the failed roll into a success. Think about that! A failed roll means that, if he wants to succeed, he has to put a lot of effort into his roleplaying!
You can also modify down, again, making him lose by more.
Now here's the reason why the final result can be important - why you'd modify a result even if it doesn't change the success/failure of the action:
The Persuasion roll can be used as the Difficulty for a future, related roll.
So you Persuade the Stormtrooper. Great. Now let's say an NPC does something - tries to Command him to go against the Persuasion, or something like that. (Maybe to get the identity of the PC, or something, I don't know.) The NPC can roll his Command against the Persuasion roll.
That's a bad example, but you can see how it would work.
_________________
Still funky after all these years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | And if the player's making a concerted effort to roleplay it out (even if they suck) I'd consider giving them a bonus as a reward for the effort. |
That seems to me a little wrong.. rewarding 'trying something' but not the 'success (for lack of a better word). If someone tries to speak their way past a guard (or what ever), but sucks at doiing it, i for one would not be giving them a bonus, just cause they tried...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool McCool
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | That seems to me a little wrong.. rewarding 'trying something' but not the 'success (for lack of a better word). If someone tries to speak their way past a guard (or what ever), but sucks at doiing it, i for one would not be giving them a bonus, just cause they tried... |
Here's the problem: who decides if they suck or not?
My personal philosophy is: the dice do.
It's cool if it is the GM who decides; that's a totally valid way to play. However, I don't like it that much. When I played like that, it lead to a whole bunch of problems: GM burnout, nobody talking about what they like, nobody talking about bad things in the game (things to improve), me (the GM) being the guy who decided what happened, and no one else had any real input.
I am not saying that these things happen for everyone! It was just my own personal failings that led to this sort of play.
I know my "style" seems odd, but I really wanted to get away from those kinds of problems. The things I picked up over the years seemed to help me (and the guys I played with) have more fun. And that's all that really matters, eh?
_________________
Still funky after all these years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ah... I commend you for sticking to the dice, but what happens when someone just uses the dice, with no rping on their part for these types of 'interaction' skills?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phalanks Balas
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Paris - France
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Failed roll does not mean complete failure. personnaly, as a GM I prefer player do the scene by role play then effectively roll the dice. If the role play is convincing and the roll is failed, I consider the character fails making his/her opponent to change of point of view BUT the player succes in making a break in the opponent's will. Then opponent can have doubt and can be persuaded more easily later...
_________________
Phalanks
A day you will be facing the guns of the Black Pearl. You will know what means damned pirates ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool McCool
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Ah... I commend you for sticking to the dice, but what happens when someone just uses the dice, with no rping on their part for these types of 'interaction' skills? |
Then I ask them to do some role-playing! Simple as that. Usually I say something like, "Role-play it out" or "Tell me what you say."
If they don't want to, or can't think of anything, then I'll just let them roll. I'm okay with that.
(Sometimes when the player who is making the roll can't think of anything, other people will offer advice - sometimes I (the GM) will do that too! That's almost like having other people roleplay your character for you, but if you say, "Yeah, cool!" then I think it's okay.)
_________________
Still funky after all these years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cool McCool wrote: |
(Sometimes when the player who is making the roll can't think of anything, other people will offer advice - sometimes I (the GM) will do that too! That's almost like having other people roleplay your character for you, but if you say, "Yeah, cool!" then I think it's okay.) |
Do you still allow others to offer advice when the person making said "speech' is on his or her own (like say being interrogated)...?? Do you give more 'hinting/advice' for newer players?? Less for those more experienced??
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
