Calling on the dark side and force points.

[Sandokiri]

Just a few questions concerning these.

1. It might seem obvious, but just to verify: if you call on the dark side (CODS) in the same round you use an FP, does the control/perception check for the CODS get doubled?

2. The extra FP gained from CODS can be used in the same round as a normal FP. How, exactly, does this affect checks made after this? Does the redouble result in *treble* die codes (as double-doubling does in WotC) or does it result in *quadruple* die codes?

Example: Darth Nabal, the self-styled (and wannabe) Sith Lord, has 2d+2 in Alter, and really, really needs to escape, so he blows an FP and uses CODS to enhance his Alter to use injure-kill on the hero team's Wookiee Bounty Hunter; the glow stick isn't gonna do much to the Wookiee, especially one wearing a modified Corellian powersuit.

Assuming that Nabal makes his CODS check, which of the following would his Alter be at? 6d+6, or 8d+8?
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[adamlumina93]

I would have to see after reading the rules that he would roll 8D+8 because the rule states that this is "in addition to any force points already spent that round" and a force point doubles all skill and attribute totals as well as special abilities. I think COSD is designed like that to make that automatic dsp attractive if you really have to save yourself and the first force point didnt help.

[Allst Beamem]

These rules are writen for use of good pc's not turned to the dark side NPC's.

That said what I'm getting at is after yove turned to the dark side it is not so sweet any more. So I'm pretty sure that when a DS character uses a DS point he just gets to add 1D per point to what ever roll he is using it for.

In your example this would mean 2D+2 + FP = 4D+4 + DSP = 5D+4.

Now of course I could be wrong on this, and I'm sure that if I am, some one will let us know very soon
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[garhkal]

WE have argued the latter part of that question, as to whether they stack or don't..... Its almost an even split (iirc) between those who think they do, and those who think they don't.. as to the first one. YES if you are on the FP already, and you call on the darkside, your perception is already doubled.
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[adamlumina93]

I think that this is one of the grey areas within the rules which for the most part are solid. I would have to say that the decision would be up to the GM as there is not obvious clear cut way. Just be sure that however you rule it once you rule it the same the rest of the time. Players are notorious for remembering rules when it benefits their characters. As far as the extra 1D I believe that is getting mistaken that dark side characters get to add 1D for every dsp the have when they use a force skill.

[Sandokiri]

[garhkal]

Raising this one from the dead for our new folk.

BTB when you call on the dark side and succeed at calling it (determined by the Perception or control check), you gain a 'force point' which must be spent immediately even if already on a force point.

Do YOU read that to mean you quad up? Or do you triple it?
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[Assuran]

IMHO, you quad it up.

The Dark Side is supposed to offer a quick and powerful advantage to seduce you into using it.

I understand how others could view it differently RAW, but I like to make the Dark Side as seductive as possible to use when people are desperate (IE, when someone is most likely to fall).

[DougRed4]

I would tend to quad it, too.

Somebody earlier posted something about getting +1D to Force skills when calling on the Dark side. Is that from the rules somewhere?
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[garhkal]

I think they were mistaking the "lure of the dark side" rule where for every DSP a force user has (NOT TURNED YET) he MAY gain s +1d to his force skill rolls per DSP he possesses, but if he refuses the dark side bonus, his rolls are at a higher difficulty.
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[Lane Arroway]

This topic is a perfect example of what WEG should have made clear in the rule book.

Example, "Ana is fighting a Dark Jedi and uses a force point: now her lightsaber skill roll is 12D+4. Even still, Ana struggles against her foe. As the Dark Jedi presses the attack Ana succumbs to desperation and calls on the Dark Side for strength. Ana automatically receives a Dark Side Point and then attempts an easy control roll. She succeeds with a 12 and receives a Force Point which she must spend immediately. Now her lightsaber skill roll is 24D+8."
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[atgxtg]

Yeah.


THe way I interpreted the RAW was that if you called on the dark side, you got and spent the "free" Force Point, but you couldn't use it for a second doubling bonus as you were limited to one FP per round by RAW with only a handful of special cases involving Force Powers that required FPs to use.

Besides if the doublings stacked, then a Jedi would stand almost no chance against a Sith. Vader would overwhelm Obi-wan or Luke easily. And that's not how it works in the films.

[DougRed4]

Possibly. But one could also rationalize that in RotJ Luke was getting his @$$ handed to him by Vader until he called on the Dark side (the part where he starts pounding on Vader, causing the Dark Lord to go down to one knee).

In other words, both start out normally. Vader pops a Force Point and Luke does the same (they both double). Then Vader spends a DS point (quading everything) and has the upper hand until Luke also pops a DS point (relying on his anger), quading things for himself as well.

Now, that said, I only point that playing Emperor's Advocate.

Myself, I think I might take an approach this from at's perspective, and here's why:

Right now a battle between good and bad Force users could be fairly even, if one was 6D in the appropriate stat (Lightsaber skill, Control, etc.) and the other 7D. When that is doubled, it's still comparable (14D to 12D). But when you quad things, it's getting into the realm of where the stronger side will almost always win (28D to 24D).
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[atgxtg]

[DougRed4]