Another DSP thought...

[Gry Sarth]

Hummm.... oh, there you are! Found you! You were stuck right between "virus" and "should". It was hard to find because "Costa" was leaning on you at an angle.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Ejacobs]

DSP's. Also for any force users a DSP that allows it to happen. Spreading viruses is dealing in "weapons of mass destruction." No modern day comparisons please. Like it was posted before, the viruses kill indiscriminately where blasters need to be fired in order to kill.

E

[garhkal]

Well, here is a link to the thread.. http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19067

According to the initial poster, he has 2 gamers. One is the powergamer, the other IS a jedi.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Vartax]

So a virus would be like in game terms like a poison? Where both may have different effects or could effect some species but not another. I think if a Jedi was apart of knowingly spreading a virus or apart of it as a weapon even the alliance would be in real danger of getting at least 1 if not two dSP

[KageRyu]

A Dark Side Point is definately Justified. Selling a Biological weapon that can and will kill indiscriminately, especially to the highest bidder, is an act of inherent evil. I would not only assign DSP, but at some future adventure have the players involved end up on a planet where it has been used to see the results of their actions (and worry about contamination).
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[Jedi Skyler]

Kage is right. WMDs are no joke, and anyone who traffics in them is BEGGING to get the big smack-down. I like the bit about having their characters venture later on to the/a planet where such weapons were used... it'll give them a chance to see first-hand the results of their actions. It might give them pause the next time they decide they wanna be knuckleheads.

[Boomer]

Dealing in them may not be inherently evil, but is certainly amoral and negligient on the highest order. Such disregard for life is certainly begging for trouble and the dark side to always work through you.

Seriously, even chemical weapons like poisons, nerve gas, and mustard gas are safe compared to any single bio-weapon. They at least have kill limits, areas of effect, and are controllable, but a virus can never be fully contained and used safely against a single side.
You risk yourself and people you do not intend to hurt when you use one, which is not the philosophy of one seeking to dispense justice or create order or peace.

The only good having a bio-weapon can do is in developing defenses and vaccines from it. He needs to find a medical RnD center somewhere and let them develope the vaccines, antivirals, and treatments and never deal with it again.

Bio weapons have been used throughout history, ever since the first dead rat was tossed in a town well way back at the dawn of civilization. Think of the consequences of that. Sure you just spelled that towns doom... now the town has no water for any occupying force, and any water supply connected to that wells source will be tainted too. It keeps spreading until several farms and townships are now no more.
Why such weapons have seen any use from there up to today, I refuse to forgive. The consequences of it should be elementary by now, it should be clear after ten thousand years.
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My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[boldulyses]

Here's one of the reasons most of my group won't play D6 Star Wars: the goody-goody factor. Everything we've read (admittedly it's more like skimmed) indicates that the Dark Side is evil and you risk being obliterated by it every time you spit on the sidewalk. Well, we play such goody goodies in our D&D games we wanted to try something different. (Oh, I play D20 by the by).

Anyway, it seems that everyone is looking at it from the perspective that evil is bad. Well, Gry seemed to be leaning towards a slightly more netural argument. Now, while it's hard to argue that evil isn't bad, what about the campaign as a whole? Are the whole bunch goody-goodies? I noticed that it was mentioned that a Jedi was present; where's the party infighting?

As far as DSPs... obviously it's debatable. I would think that a single DSP would be appropriate, and whether he's Force Sensitive or not... does his character know he's Force-Sensitive? Has he been taught anything in the Jedi Code? If he knows that's it's evil and he's more in tune with the Force then he should receive a DSP, and perhaps some other debilitating illness from time to time, simulating his connection to the use of the virus. Let me clarify:

Non-Force Sensitive Single DSP for going through with the plan.
Force Sensitive only Single DSP for going through with the plan, and some other sort of Force-related penalty everytime a large group of people are exposed/killed by the virus (weekly or monthly, depending on how many people he sold it to or who were reasonably targeted). Penalties include a DSP, some sort of emotional strain that disallows certain actions for the day, that sort of thing.
Force Sensitive with Jedi Training This is clearly the worst. Not only should he gain a DSP for selling the information, he should gain one for every time he sells the data. He should then gain a DSP everytime a group of people are killed by the virus (as above). Furthermore, he should have some sort of vision showing great pain and suffering and people calling out his name. Perhaps a loss of Character Points? (I'm presuming CPs work like Force Points in D20, you expend them to get more dice to throw to succeed at your task).

Getting back to the being evil part, if it's an evil campaign, then I wouldn't penalize him as heavily. I'd max it out as Force-Sensitive only penalties above. If it's a goodly campaign, and there's a Jedi in the group... I'd be tempted to grant the Jedi a DSP for allowing it to continue right in front of him, but that's a maybe. I'd definitely give the Jedi some kind of debilitating nightmare about people suffering and dying while calling out the Jedi's name, pleading for their very lives. Then again, I'm just mean like that...
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"There comes a time in every man's life when he has to decide whether he wants to follow the path of the Jedi, or if he wants to be cool like Vader." -Unknown
My site sucks; check it out! I hope to improve it.

[Jedi Skyler]

D6 isn't a completely "goody-goody" game. There's plenty of darker elements in it, and of course the GM and the players can define and alter the overall tone of the campaign. It doesn't have to be all Shirley Temple. The only thing keeping a D6 campaign from having a darker flavor, IMO, is a lack of either creativity or freedom.

And yeah, I play D6, and DON'T play D20. I have played numerous campaigns that were on the darker side of the coin, and had no problems with it whatsoever. Sometimes it's fun to play that kind of campaign. But you also have to remember: the overall tone of Star Wars is that good wins out in the end. Even with the prequels, with Palpatine "winning", they're just part of the whole story which ends with good triumphing over evil. So it's not just D6; it's Star Wars in general.

[boldulyses]

I apologize for any potential slight made against the system; it wasn't intentional. I was trying to illustrate that my perspective is from a different gaming standpoint, and that I wanted to add to this discussion from whatever philosophical standpoint I could represent.

The fact is you're right, good is supposed to triumph over evil in Star Wars, ultimately and finally. That's why I wholly support punishment for not only the character performing the task, but those around him who should know better but do nothing about it.

Another fun thing would be to have local or sector authorities catch on to this flagrant disregard and start hunting him. This would add a whole new story line possibility for the group.

Again, I apologize for anything said that may have been misinterpreted as an insult to the game. Clearly, without WEG there would be no WotC D20 Star Wars game. I was merely suggesting that a darker campaign might not be as penalized, but that doesn't mean they receive no penalty.
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"There comes a time in every man's life when he has to decide whether he wants to follow the path of the Jedi, or if he wants to be cool like Vader." -Unknown
My site sucks; check it out! I hope to improve it.

[garhkal]

[Jedi Skyler]

Or you could have the sector authorities HIRE the bounty hunters or mercs. The players might not ever find out until they're captured who was behind it all.


And thanks for clearing up the D6-D20 issue. It did kinda sound like you were dogging the system out, and I wanted to make sure you understood that you were on a D6-friendly site.

[Robert]

You can of course lower the penalties of DSP in a darker campaign. Aside from me not wanting to play such campaings - e.g. i don´t like Vampire - there is no limit to you. I would still deal out the same number of DSP, but i wouldn´t let the character roll whether he becomes a npc or not. Maybe i would make a table what side effects the Dark Side has on body and mind derived from the amount of DSP you have. With some randomness, of course. I think this would be better than rolling even in a "normal" campaign.

And about that D20 - D6 discussion. I in my whole live have not seen any D20 text inciting freedom and creativity - their rules are strict and should not be changed. I had this discussion once in another forum and still dont think D20 is suited for Star Wars. But hey - as long as you have fun you can play what you want to play. I for myself think SWD20 players should be invited to post. I would even like listening to their - that means your - point of view, but keep in mind - this is a star Wars D6 site, and please, don´t try to convince us D20 is better and D6 is worse. This way we don´t have to show it´s the other way round and save much time. You´re welcome.

[boldulyses]

The thing that I do like about the D6 system, from what I've been able to get from the books, is that it's a skill-based system, unlike anything Wizards or TSR ever put out, which relies too heavily on physical/mental attributes. If you're good at something, you're good at it. Period. As I have never even created a character, I cannot say how simple that process is. The reason I'm a D20 player is it's what I know.

Now, with that behind us, never let it be said from this point forward that I want to convert anyone to D20. The way I figure it, if D20 were so great, you guys would already be playing it.

In terms of "other" effects, we're doing the same thing in our D20 game. I tapped the Dark Side a few too many times, and now I look similar to Palpatine at the end of his battle with Mace. Makes me stand out a bit...

There's a number of rules in the WotC system that I find... annoying, at best. But, we're trudging along. I wish I had more time I'd try to get into an online D6 game so I could learn the system. Hell, I'm spending all this time in those books, I may as well put em to use
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"There comes a time in every man's life when he has to decide whether he wants to follow the path of the Jedi, or if he wants to be cool like Vader." -Unknown
My site sucks; check it out! I hope to improve it.

[Robert]

Did you make up a table, boldulyses? I would appreciate such a thing, i think i should make up someone for myself - and post it, of course. The idea of the dark side worsen your mental and physical capabilites is interesting, although there should be a great deal of difference and individualism.