Force fatigue?/Force stamina?

[CoratDamar]

It seems to me that use of the Force is shown in the films to be, at least sometimes, tiring. Even Yoda looks like he kind of takes a little breath after TKing Luke's X-wing (which of course left Luke gasping after a mere attempt).

Unless I'm missing something, 2nd edition does not seem to represent this--basically allowing players with decent enough Force skills to e.g. spam telekinesis all day long. That should have won the Clone Wars in like a month.

Is any kind of fatigue/limited capacity for Force use represented in any TTRPG? And if so, did it seem to be done well? And if so, how adaptable might it be to d6?

Or: have any folks handled this some other way in d6? Certainly this could come down to the bog-standard stamina skill rules, but that really means it comes down to GM fiat (the R&E core rulebook says stamina checks "should be called for once in a while"; I have a hunch I would not like this if I were playing a Jedi PC, particularly one battling Force-wielding NPCs). And also, recovery from stamina failures seems to be all about the duration of exertion rather than the severity of that exertion.

I feel the urge to houserule this. I absolutely wouldn't want to go the full Vancian casting route (e.g. "My Jedi can use telekinesis five times per day!"). Given that the Force is strongly implied to be pretty much limitless, I feel like it might make sense for this fatigue-limitation to not actually prevent a Force-user from using a power, if they're willing to eat some form of cost. (I think back to the pre-Mouse EU implying that "overuse" of the Force results in physiological consequences.)

My gut says that whatever limitation this houserule imposes--even if it's merely a fatigue penalty--should probably be straightforward for the Force-using PC to remove, likely via a period of meditation.

And my fondness for Excel is encouraging me to make the numeric representation of a Force-user's "Force stamina rating" be somehow derived from their C/S/A dice and their current total of Force points and/or DSPs to allow for a measurable (that is, non-GM-fiat-based) distinction between the Force-stamina-capacity of a youngling versus a Chosen One. But then I start to think about how that number interacts with individual Force powers' difficulties and lean back toward GM-called-for stamina checks again.

Maybe what is really needed is some sort of expanded stamina difficulty level table specific to the Force, in the style of a WEG "Optional Rules" sidebar.
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Running a Clone Wars Republic Intelligence campaign (Spring 2022-present)

[garhkal]

The Only time i saw someone putting one in, was a one off, back at Gencon UK, 98. The person running that table, had it where you could use each force attribute once a day, per D you had, without any worries.
Every time after you wanted to try, you'd have to roll your attribute AS IF IT was a stamina check. First additional try was VE, then Easy, then moderate and so on. Fail, and you could STILL try, to kick the power in at a +10 diff.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[pakman]

TLDR: Yes, I worked on a fatigue system to help balance out force powers.
Also put in an ability that lets you gain extra dice at a trade off for more fatigue.

The Mechanic:
From my house rules - the shortened version.

Stress and Fatigue: Stress is gained from physical and mental strain (combat, exertion, being healed, etc.) and many force powers.

A Stamina Check is required each time Stress is gained, the Difficulty being the Stress value. On Success there is no effect until Stress increases again. On a Failure, Stress is cleared, but gain one Pip of Fatigue. Each Full die of Fatigue is a penalty to all Actions.
When Fatigue reaches the character’s Stamina Die code, they must make a Stamina Check every minute or pass out.

So, Gain two Stress - make a Stamina Check against a Difficulty Level 2 - Easy. Pass - keep the two stress, nothing else happens.
Fail the check - the Stress Clears - and gain a Fatigue Pip.

Accumulate 3 Fatigue Pips - 1D condition penalty to all actions.

Resting recovers 1 fatigue pip per hour.


Why Did I do this?
Yes, I have thought about this, and yes have introduced house rules to deal with it.

I find that force powers are lacking in a balanced mechanisms.

While yes, we have;
* Difficult to use - takes a long time for them to be useful.
* If you are a jedi, will need to hide from vader and his inquisitor friends.
* Almost everything gives you a dark side point.

So, I was doing a major house rules overhaul to address many perceived issues I had with the Force Powers - and the three things above were big issues with me.

1 - I was going to simplify them, making them more accessible but reducing the power curve - (lower skill force users can do more - but are weak - higher skilled force users don't break the game later).

2 - Not everyone plays in the rebellion era - from old republic to new republic - there is lots of great star wars out there - so needing to hide from dark siders was not a good balance mechanism for my game.

3 - MY group felt the dark side rules were very.....well - felt like playing a padadin in old school D&D. this did not match the desires or expectations of my group. So I overhauled the dark side system - to be more narrative based and less of a balance mechanism on players. (if your group loves the style of old dark side - that is awesome for you and I am glad you like it - my group did not - to each their own).

So, I needed a better way to limit force powers ....and I did not want to do a power point or spell system.....

then I remembered luke get tired attempting to lift the xwing...

I was planning on reworking Fatigue and Exhaustion anyway - so I made a lot of Force powers give a Stress Point on failure, and a few more powerful ones a stress point on success.

I also put in a mechanic that force users could get a bonus of taking more stress on a check - (the luke thing - he overextended himself - and got tired)
Fore Each D in Control, character can take +1D bonus to Force roll, but takes +1 Stress immediately.

Have been playing with it for about two years now - and it could use a bit of tweaking - but overall - works really well.

Hopefully you can get something useful out of that.
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SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon....

[CoratDamar]

Good stuff y'all, thanks. In reviewing this and related threads, I'm coming to realize the WEG rules for the Force might need a total rework in my setting, so this is a longer-term project than I originally expected! But at least I'm not likely to have any Force-user PCs anytime soon
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Running a Clone Wars Republic Intelligence campaign (Spring 2022-present)

[pakman]

[garhkal]

IF you decide to make it like the fan source books this site has created (such as the nicely done Star-wars guide - Medical source book, by Luwingo_spince), I'd be happy to put my voice in for an editor.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!