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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well, who wouldn't laugh at people who got caught by some troopers? For all the precision that Obi-Wan credits them with in their marksmanship they sure do waste a LOT of ammo firing all over the screen!  |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Volar the Healer wrote: | | In games where the PCs are part of a team, say the Rebellion, I use it quite a bit. But then they always get a chance to save their rescuers at some point also. This makes the Rebellion more "real". In our current campaign, where the PCs are a free trader on their own, they're...well...on their own. |
What, if they are the only ones there? Do you just have someone else pop out of no where??
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Hey... that's where good ol' GM creativity comes in. Perhaps there's a concealed doorway. Perhaps a ship comes swooping in. Even a wild animal or twenty could stampede in, distracting the attackers and allowing the PCs a chance to escape or get an extra round of firing in. The limits are simply the GM's creativity. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Interesting suggestions...
What if there were no 'animals' in the area to make a stampeed (like on an imperial controled space station) or no way for a 'ship' to fly in (like in an underground sith tomb)....
And i am hoping that you do not consider my 'arguments' to be that i am not hearing your suggestions/comments. Buit i like to look at things from all angles.
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | What, if they are the only ones there? Do you just have someone else pop out of no where?? |
No. It has to be somehow belivable, and it has to fit the campaign, somehow - or maybe yes, if I'm opening up a new story line.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Interesting suggestions...
What if there were no 'animals' in the area to make a stampeed (like on an imperial controled space station) or no way for a 'ship' to fly in (like in an underground sith tomb)....
And i am hoping that you do not consider my 'arguments' to be that i am not hearing your suggestions/comments. Buit i like to look at things from all angles. |
Not at all! If a player OR a GM is going to try to introduce ANYTHING into a campaign, it's supposed to be believeable. That's made quite clear to all GMs. We, as role players, SHOULD be looking at new ideas from all angles. If we already have all the arguments thought out and answered sufficiently, then there's no reason it can't be introduced into the game.
As for the Sith tomb...A sudden earthquake shakes the entire tunnel the party and their opponents are in. Debris rains down all around, with several large chunks of earth and stone beginning to strike those caught below. (GM rolls to determine how many in each party, then has PCs and NPCs make saving rolls.) One of the party is lightly stunned, and two of your enemies have been dropped to their knees, clutching the back of their necks. The rest of them are looking up now, trying to avoid the falling missiles. They seem to have lost interest in the party...
...A riot has begun near the party and their Imperial opponents on the space station. Local workers are irate at the rapidly deteriorating conditions in the shops all over as the Imperial presence has grown, and have converged at this location to make themselves heard. After a trooper fired on a protester the crowd went berserk, drawing weapons and opening fire on the outnumbered troopers, giving the party an opportunity to either join the fracas or slip away while the Imps are otherwise engaged... |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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By that description for the cave in, it seems you made the npcs fail their saves...
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I was just giving an example of how it could go. But of course, if we're following this whole Deus Ex Machina concept, you really can to whatever the heck you want. It is, quite literally, "God of the Machine." That is, if you're intent on PC success at whatever cost. I'm not advocating handing them every victory. I'm just playing around with this thread. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Actually, i am not for them. BUT other gms in the group i am with are... and they are trying to get me to use them.
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Lord Aramus
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: |
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I always try to let my PCs 'earn' NPC saves.
aka.. they must make an ally in game to have him show up at their greatest moment of need (han solo at death star #1)
but they must also be willing to reciprocate (han in carbonite)
otherwise that NPC is going to have a long memory about how his friendship was not returned.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, that's definitely true. Most of the gamers I've played with are more than willing to make that kind of NPC friends. You never know when you'll need them to just "be in the neighborhood..." |
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Boomer
Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 688
Location: Terra Sol
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Consequences to their actions. That is how it should all be.
In the Star Trek game I have been playing, our GM has gone easy on us. Our ship should have been destroyed 3 times over... but the truth is, their system SUCKS. A failure, plus a complication of horrid description such as someones death, ALWAYS on a 1 on the wild.
Plus, knocking out systems, is frustratingly random, and the ENTIRE system goes when it happens. Environmental with 16 backups can all go out at once quite easily. All 40 shield emmitters, all gone, easily. Warp core breach and explosion possible during every battle.
I don't remember Star Trek having that many explosions, or for a slapstick comedy ensuing whenever a character uses a tricorder or phaser.
So the GM fudges the disaster tables so that random chance doesnt vaporize us all just for showing up.
Than there is my game, run in good old Star Wars D6. In that game, if you do something so horrifically stupid, a good roll can't save you... you deserve to die. Really, just die.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:46 am Post subject: |
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"Ah'm givin' her all she's got sir, but if ah give 'er any more she's gonna explode! Ah tried shovin' a weiner in the warp drive mechanism but it didn't do a wee bit a' good...
By the way, would ya happen to have a wee bit a' mustard on the bridge?"
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Too me this is a tricky question. I have had NPCs save PCs, but rarely ever is it "out of the blue", and almost never just some random NPC. Usually, it is part of the plot I have prepared, or it is NPCs that have been travelling with, or are aquainted too one or more PC. I use this to introduce new characters and plot elements. I will only have "The calvalry come riding in" as in some large or powerful NPC force, if it was planned that way...i.e. the PCs are a scout force, or a delaying force, etc...
Sometimes, in my games, NPC actions can actually put the players in worse shape, even when well intended (as this one heavy NPC I have with my current players, Borrin, is a gun...he doesn't usually actively try to take prisoners, and he wants his cut. Then there's the swordsman, Ji, who seems a bit Amorral).
| Tahlorn wrote: |
I had this happen too, was in a different system. Bugged the hell out of me, because he was flashing his PCs and NPCs. They would show up "just in the nick of time", but wasn't becuase we were unable to take care of the situation on our own and needed the help, but becasue the GM set it up so it was impossible for us, and his PC or NPC would quickly save the day. I was to the point of just making my character a walker, as it was obvious that the GMs characters could easily take care of the whole campaign on thier own. Then I realized that the gm's PC would come to my rescue, so I forced myself back into where I had been 'saved' from (huge demon that the gm's PC threw himself at so we could run away from it), didn't die because the GMPC was taking all the attention, and by the rules (D&D) I ended up getting more xp than everyone else. |
This is what makes these situations tricky. As a GM, you generally don't want the players feeling inadequate or useless, and you don't want to seem as if the scenes are set to revolve around the NPCs, or just to showcase how "cool" your NPCs are. The NPCs should be memorable, but the focus should be on the players. NPC shouldn't always come riding in all the time. I have had this happen to me as a player a lot, and I hated it. So I fully understand your point Tahlorn.
| Quote: | I have rarely used my big NPCs in missions to help, and only if the PCs have earned thier respect, which does not come easily. Also, pretty much I allow each of the NPCs only ONE large "save the PCs" action per mission, and only if the PCs put themselves into something that they can't get out of (complete dire situation).
If the players do enough stuff on thier own, and get to a point where it is obvious that to get to the next step they are going to need a LOT of help, then using a group of NPCs or one/two uber-npcs seems fine. Just dont let them linger about, waiting in the shadows to help at the last moment. This makes the game no fun for the players, as they feel useless, and also take stupid actions, as they know they will be saved if they get into deep trouble.
~Tahlorn |
This is a good way of handling NPC actions. Also, sometimes, as my players gain experiance, and importance, they will attract followers, lackeys, or be given command of subordinates. This isn't to say that all of the subordinates will follow without question, and many will be "stock" NPC types, but it can give a player's ego a boost to suddenly find himself in a position of authority.
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Grimace
Captain
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | "Ah'm givin' her all she's got sir, but if ah give 'er any more she's gonna explode! Ah tried shovin' a weiner in the warp drive mechanism but it didn't do a wee bit a' good...
By the way, would ya happen to have a wee bit a' mustard on the bridge?"
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Schlok: "No mustard, Captain."
Someone used to listen to Dr. Demento, it seems.  |
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