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cheshire
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 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The first time I heard it was on an episode of Shooting Womprats... |
Same here. Though a Google Trends history shows that the term was in use January 1, 2004. It waned quite a lot, and then picked up again more steadily in in recent years.
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | The first time I heard it was on an episode of Shooting Womprats... |
Same here. Though a Google Trends history shows that the term was in use January 1, 2004. It waned quite a lot, and then picked up again more steadily in in recent years. |
Huh, did the popularity of the term pick up around 2009? That was when Pathfinder first came onto the scene. I'm probably wrong, but I'm curious to know if the term "murder-hobos" follows a similar pattern in popularity with the existence of Pathfinder. Yeah, the term may have originated with D&D, but I'm wondering if Pathfinder may have "codified" (as in "Trope Codifier" from TV Tropes) the term.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Leona Makk wrote: | | After this adventure, I am hoping to steer everyone towards the ultimate sandbox...MINOS Cluster. Maybe I will rein MY story ideas a bit and practice objectivity there. |
Oddly enough, one of the set-ups for the Minos Cluster is that the PCs are sent their because it's too hot for them everywhere else. GG6 lays out in detail how the characters are basically on the run and Alliance Command sends them to Minos on a low-key mission running a tramp freighter (and gathering intel and making contacts).
If you manage to get them there, I'll need to step up my game on the Ship Modification and After Market Parts...
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Whill
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | cheshire wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | The first time I heard it was on an episode of Shooting Womprats... |
Same here. Though a Google Trends history shows that the term was in use January 1, 2004. It waned quite a lot, and then picked up again more steadily in in recent years. |
Huh, did the popularity of the term pick up around 2009? That was when Pathfinder first came onto the scene. I'm probably wrong, but I'm curious to know if the term "murder-hobos" follows a similar pattern in popularity with the existence of Pathfinder. Yeah, the term may have originated with D&D, but I'm wondering if Pathfinder may have "codified" (as in "Trope Codifier" from TV Tropes) the term. |
Well, I suppose anything is possible. The Pathfinder growth was by and large a lot of people jumping ship FROM D&D, with all of their play styles and history. But does it even matter?
As you know, Pathfinder practically IS D&D in all but name, or at least they share a common ancestor. And the Murder Hobo isn't really a part of the rules of either system, rather a name someone coined to describe the behaviour/ reaction to the type of players that had existed since the first D&D prototypes (And continued in most of the earlier fantasy RPGs, classic and video games to this very day).
I'd love to know who invented that term, because it is so hilarious and apt, but for me, it's a stretch to pin it's spread and popularity on a single rules variant over the phenomenon of role playing games in general. 
I'd say the internet takes a big win on the spread of terminology...but back in the pre-internet days we had slang that seemed to get around;
Terms like 'munchkins' and 'monty haul campaign' and 'powergamer'. I think their spread was facilitated by gaming magazines and gaming conventions. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Terms like 'munchkins' and 'monty haul campaign' and 'powergamer'. I think their spread was facilitated by gaming magazines and gaming conventions. |
Don't forget fanzines like Alarums & Excursions and The Wild Hunt. They were the Internet gaming forums of their day.
And speaking of jargon nostalgia, in the groups I was in we used the term "K-Mart" as in "Oh yeah he is a K-Mart referee" for a campaign with too much magic and too much treasure for too little risk. It was the antithesis of the "Death & Despair" referee. |
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Terms like 'munchkins' and 'monty haul campaign' and 'powergamer'. I think their spread was facilitated by gaming magazines and gaming conventions. |
Don't forget fanzines like Alarums & Excursions and The Wild Hunt. They were the Internet gaming forums of their day.
And speaking of jargon nostalgia, in the groups I was in we used the term "K-Mart" as in "Oh yeah he is a K-Mart referee" for a campaign with too much magic and too much treasure for too little risk. It was the antithesis of the "Death & Despair" referee. |
We called those the 'Monty Haul'. Pretty sure Dragon Magazine is where I first picked up that term.  |
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | We called those the 'Monty Haul'. Pretty sure Dragon Magazine is where I first picked up that term. |
The Dragon is probably where most people saw the phrase. Someone in our group had coined the "K-Mart" phrase pre-Dragon. So for a long time the earlier phrases just stuck with us. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Bren wrote: |
And speaking of jargon nostalgia, in the groups I was in we used the term "K-Mart" as in "Oh yeah he is a K-Mart referee" for a campaign with too much magic and too much treasure for too little risk. It was the antithesis of the "Death & Despair" referee. |
We called those the 'Monty Haul'. Pretty sure Dragon Magazine is where I first picked up that term. |
Same here. Though never heard o death and despair referees before..
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I began playing D&D in 4th grade but was only a player then. Starting in 6th grade, I was one of three DMs in my gaming group which took turns running for everyone else's characters. (We were also the three main players but others joined us sometimes.)
When I was a new DM, I was the generous one who gave a lot of treasure (but not quite to Monty Haul levels). Jason was the stingy DM who would have us work our way through an entire dungeon and kill a dragon at the end, only to earn a single potion. Mike was a strictly by-the-book DM who always rolled for treasure and never deviated in the slightest from the treasure chart results. Really all three of us were wrong, but we were kids.
I read "Monty Haul" in Dragon Magazine but didn't know who Monty Haul was until later. Not sure where I heard "murder hobos" but the funny thing was I instantly knew what the term meant because that really does appropriately sum up a lot of games.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've searched Murder Hobo on tvtropes and the All The Tropes Wiki, but I get no results. Odd that it gets no coverage...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I've searched Murder Hobo on tvtropes and the All The Tropes Wiki, but I get no results. Odd that it gets no coverage... |
They put it in a sub-class under Munchkin (for some strange reason...)
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Munchkin |
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Whill
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | cheshire wrote: | | Same here. Though a Google Trends history shows that the term was in use January 1, 2004. It waned quite a lot, and then picked up again more steadily in in recent years. |
Huh, did the popularity of the term pick up around 2009? That was when Pathfinder first came onto the scene. I'm probably wrong, but I'm curious to know if the term "murder-hobos" follows a similar pattern in popularity with the existence of Pathfinder. Yeah, the term may have originated with D&D, but I'm wondering if Pathfinder may have "codified" (as in "Trope Codifier" from TV Tropes) the term. |
That may be that it became codified in Pathfinder, but it became more regular in May of 2012, but it's been in the last two years that it has been really more frequent.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Same here. Though never heard o death and despair referees before.. |
We used it a lot. It's possible our group had more than our share of referees who set the difficulty level of their games to Very Difficult.  |
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