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Zulgyan
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 Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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Hi all! I'm a veteran D&D DM and a SW original trilogy fan, but I'm new to the d6 SW game. I don't have access to the real 1E rulebook, so I'll be using the "Classic Adventures" booklets, so generously provided on this site (big thanks!).
I'll be dumping some questions here, for any of you who might want to help me out to get into the d6 SW game. I'll be running a game for people who have never played an RPG before, so I want to keep the rules light and simple.
1. So according to the rules, every character begins with a Force Point, and the manual speaks about the character "trusting the force" to use it. I was wondering if people have a better way to explain the application of this rule (which works as a story element in the game) for Han Solo type characters who are cynical about the force and don't really trust it. Should the use of the force just represent their "heoric luck"? In that case, is it the character or the player who is really invoking the help of the force? Should a character cynical about the force be unaware of its influence? The player might be the one deciding that the Force Point is being used, but the character is really unaware and just calls it luck. What I don't like so much about this is that it becomes kinda metagamy. What do most people do?
2. A player has expressed he wants to play a mandalorian. Is this in the spirit of the 1E game? I don't see any character templates for mandalorians. Of course I could allow it in my own game, but I'm trying to follow what the book proposes, at least at the start of the campaign. Would it make sense if he is a mercenary being paid by the Rebellion?
3. Is the default era of 1E play the time between ANH and ESB?
4. Can players using "force sensitive" character templates (Alien Student of the Force, Minor Jedi, Failed Jedi, Quixotic Jedi) allocate some of their starting 7D to force skills? |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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| Zulgyan wrote: | | Hi all! I'm a veteran D&D DM and a SW original trilogy fan, but I'm new to the d6 SW game. I don't have access to the real 1E rulebook, so I'll be using the "Classic Adventures" booklets, so generously provided on this site (big thanks!). |
The Classic Adventures book is excellent. At least it looks excellent. I haven't read it.
| Quote: | | I'll be dumping some questions here, for any of you who might want to help me out to get into the d6 SW game. I'll be running a game for people who have never played an RPG before, so I want to keep the rules light and simple. |
I've played long campaigns with the extended rules, and I've gotta tell ya. I like the First Edition best.
I've got some notes about 1E that I've posted elsewhere that I will post for you. I think that they'll help you out.
As to my answers below, I'll be answering from a First Edition perspective--not from the Classic Adventures as I don't use it and didn't read it.
| Quote: | | 1. So according to the rules, every character begins with a Force Point, and the manual speaks about the character "trusting the force" to use it. I was wondering if people have a better way to explain the application of this rule (which works as a story element in the game) for Han Solo type characters who are cynical about the force and don't really trust it. Should the use of the force just represent their "heoric luck"? In that case, is the character or the player really invoking the help of the force? Should a character cynical about the force be unaware of its action? The player might be the one deciding that the Force Point is being used, but the character is really unaware and just calls it luck. What I don't like so much about this is that it becomes kinda metagamy. What do most people do? |
A player can use a Force Point any time he wants, on any roll that he wants. The phrase "trusting to the Force" is just a fancy way of saying that a character is spending a Force Point.
What is critical is how a character spends the point. You, as GM, judge if the FP was spent to do evil or in a dramatically appropriate way.
When you're dealing with the Luke Skywalkers of the universe, this is roleplayed with Luke switching off his targeting computer, with Ben in his head saying, "Let go! Trust your feelings!". Luke blew a Force Point to get those two proton torpedoes to hit their mark during the Death Star trench run.
In the new movie, The Force Awakens, you can see Rey spend a Force Point when she is dueling Kylo Ren. Their lightsabers locked. Ren is so excited--so jittery--the Dark Side flowing through him. And Rey becomes calm for a moment. She gets in touch with her feelings. The point is spent, and Rey kicks some Kylo butt.
But, you're asking about the Han Solos of the universe. Yeah, this would be more akin to Luck. The Force ebbs and flow through all living things, including those charming rogues who don't even believe in the existence of the Force.
Have you ever had a run of cards, or done exceptionally well at pinball, or hit that miracle home run in a baseball game? The Force was with you.
And, that's how you play it with those who do not believe. You play it off as miracles, luck, being in the right place at the right time.
The rules even address this, saying...
| Quote: | | ...you're attempting to use your luck, moxie, or control to make sure what you want happens. |
The Force manifests itself in many ways. You do not have to be a believer.
It's that time when you focus and put all your energy into a moment. It is nature helping you out. It is everything going "right", just when you need it to do that.
The players control the use of the FP. You, as GM, judge its use. If a Han Solo type is truly roleplaying, then it is probably more likely for him to get a Dark Side point because he doesn't believe in any morality based religion. He's just trumping it all up to Luck. Happenstance.
On the other hand, though, most people have a certain sense of what is right and wrong, so that's why Han Solo doesn't have any DSPs. Not because of the Force, but because of his own sense of right and wrong.
I don't think spending Force Points is metagamey at all, if it is roleplayed correctly. And, it's your job, as GM, to make sure that players play that aspect of the game correctly. Keep the spirit of the movies.
| Quote: | | 2. A player has expressed he wants to play a mandalorian. Is this in the spirit of the 1E game? |
Absolutely. Why not?
| Quote: | | I don't see any character templates for mandalorians. Of course I could allow it in my own game, but I'm trying to follow what the book proposes, at least at the start of the campaign. Would it make sense if he is a mercenary being paid by the Rebellion? |
Sure.
It's a big universe. There are all sorts out there.
You, as GM, can make up new templates for your characters. It isn't that hard. Look at page 81.
Mandalorians are humans, so all of their attributes will be between 2D and 4D. Use the rules on page 81 to create a Mandalorian template. Decide on the six attributes, then assign skills that you think are appropriate for a Mandalorian to have. Boom. You're all done. You've created a template for the player. Allow what equipment the character should have. Give him some starting money. You're done.
Isn't 1E awesome!
| Quote: | | 3. Is the default era of 1E play the time between ANH and ESB? |
Yes, the 1st edition game was intended for game set just after the Death Star exploded to the end of The Empire Strikes Back. That's about a three year period.
Your question has prompted me to import a thread I've written elsewhere about the 1E game. If you spend some time on that thread, I do think it will greatly help you GM your first D6 Star Wars game.
CLICK HERE TO SEE THAT THREAD. |
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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| Zulgyan wrote: | | 1. So according to the rules, every character begins with a Force Point, and the manual speaks about the character "trusting the force" to use it. I was wondering if people have a better way to explain the application of this rule (which works as a story element in the game) for Han Solo type characters who are cynical about the force and don't really trust it. Should the use of the force just represent their "heoric luck"? In that case, is it the character or the player who is really invoking the help of the force? Should a character cynical about the force be unaware of its influence? The player might be the one deciding that the Force Point is being used, but the character is really unaware and just calls it luck. What I don't like so much about this is that it becomes kinda metagamy. What do most people do? |
You have identified an interesting discontinuity between player POV and character POV. I look at this two ways.
1. When Han says in ESB, "Never tell me the odds." I see that as the cynical smuggler view of Force Points. To him FPs are luck and he doesn't want to know the odds because he needs to believe in his luck.
2. Yes it is a kinda metagamy. Non-force sensitives characters don't have many FPs so they don't use them very often during a session. I can live with that level of metagaminess.
| Quote: | | 2. A player has expressed he wants to play a mandalorian. Is this in the spirit of the 1E game? I don't see any character templates for mandalorians. Of course I could allow it in my own game, but I'm trying to follow what the book proposes, at least at the start of the campaign. Would it make sense if he is a mercenary being paid by the Rebellion? |
Let me first get this out of the way. I think Mandalorians are really, really over rated. But some Star Wars fans really, really like them. So if you want to include them that's cool. I'd probably use something like the Bounty Hunter template as a starting point. You could have him paid by the Rebels, but I don't think that works well long term.
One variant I've used for a mercenary from a warlike race is to have the character have a grudge against the Empire, but because he is a mercenary he has to be paid (because Guild rules say so, Code of the Mercenary, cultural quirk, etc...). So he offers to join the Rebellion if they pay him. His rate to fight the Empire...1 credit a day.
| Quote: | | 3. Is the default era of 1E play the time between ANH and ESB? |
I'd say the assumption is between ANH and ROTJ. Some of the adventures are clearly set shortly after the destruction of the Death Star in ANH. Some are set after the retreat from Hoth. The rules clearly don't envision an all Jedi party and the setting assumes Jedi are rare and there is no info on the Jedi Order until later supplements come out.
But some people undoubtedly have played before or after the first movies. If nothing else a long running campaign may end up running past ROTJ. So set the game when and where you want.
| Quote: | | 4. Can players using "force sensitive" character templates (Alien Student of the Force, Minor Jedi, Failed Jedi, Quixotic Jedi) allocate some of their starting 7D to force skills? |
Yes. It is assumed that some of those characters will have starting Force skills > 1D. They can add up to 2D to any Force skill that they have. So they might have up to 3D in a starting Force skill.
They can't add another Force skill though. They are limited at the start to the number listed on their template. You will notice that for each Force skill that a template includes the character loses 1D of starting attribute dice. So if they have Control only they have 18D-1D=17D in attribute dice. If they have Control and Sense they have 18D-2D=16D in attributes. And if they have Control, Sense, and Alter they have only 18D-3D=15D in attributes. Essentially this is a balancing mechanism for PC Force users vs. PC non-Force users. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Zulgyan wrote: | | I don't see any character templates for mandalorians. Of course I could allow it in my own game, but I'm trying to follow what the book proposes, at least at the start of the campaign. Would it make sense if he is a mercenary being paid by the Rebellion? |
Sure.
It's a big universe. There are all sorts out there.
You, as GM, can make up new templates for your characters. It isn't that hard. Look at page 81.
Mandalorians are humans, so all of their attributes will be between 2D and 4D. Use the rules on page 81 to create a Mandalorian template. Decide on the six attributes, then assign skills that you think are appropriate for a Mandalorian to have. Boom. You're all done. You've created a template for the player. Allow what equipment the character should have. Give him some starting money. You're done.
Isn't 1E awesome! |
Oh, yeah, you can also check out the fan made GG15, which has a template for Jango Fett. If you don't want to do it yourself, as suggested above, then you can copy Jango--make a template from his stats.
CLICK HERE FOR GALAXY GUIDE 15 - ATTACK OF THE CLONES. |
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Zulgyan
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb: Thanks for your extended and very complete answers. What I love about "Classic Adventures" is its organization and presentation. I have printed out the booklets, making several copies of the Player's Manual to hand them over to players. I have skimmed through the real 1E book, and so far the text seems identical, with the "classic adventures" booklets adding some stuff from other sources, with no rules changes, and presenting some "optional rules" I believe are found in the "Upgrade" or "Companion". But they are clearly labeled as optional.
Your answers are really helping me out! Thanks!
Did you catch my forth question? (I added it in an edit of the original post)
4. Can players using "force sensitive" character templates (Alien Student of the Force, Minor Jedi, Failed Jedi, Quixotic Jedi) allocate some of their starting 7D to force skills? |
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Zulgyan
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:00 am Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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That sourcebook is for 2E right? Which is a quick way for finding out if it is 1E o 2E? Can 2E templates be used as is for 1E? What differences should be taken into account?
Last edited by Zulgyan on Wed May 17, 2017 12:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Zulgyan
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Bren: loved your answers, straight and to the point. Big thanks!
I've been thinking that if the mandalorian character gets a regular income of credits from the Rebellion, that other characters don't get, maybe he won't get Force Points back at the end of an adventure, as a way of balacing that out. Thoughts? |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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You sneaked another question in on me!
| Zulgyan wrote: | | 4. Can players using "force sensitive" character templates (Alien Student of the Force, Minor Jedi, Failed Jedi, Quixotic Jedi) allocate some of their starting 7D to force skills? |
Read Chapter Six. There, it goes into detail about the Force, Dark Side Points, Force Points, Force Powers, Finding a Master, and the like.
Because the default game is set when there are no Jedi, PC Force Powers are kept low and weak for beginning characters. The intent is for the character to use the rules and grow in the Force over the lifetime of the campaign.
The rules specifically design a character that is not as strong as Luke Skywalker because any PC Force User is not "the one" during this time period. That person is Luke Skywalker (and you can have him do cameos in your game!).
The idea is to enjoy the journey, growing slowly, from barely being able to control the Force to a pretty formidable master of some Force Powers after a long time gaming with the character.
Note that Force Skills in the game are not like other skills.
The three Force Skills: Control, Alter, and Sense.
The Force Skills act more like attributes. In fact, if you look at the templates where characters are started with Force Skils, their attributes are lowered to accommodate the dice put into Force Skills.
Force Powers (what you would think of as Skills) have no dice. Only the governor Force Skill is used.
It gets confusing because Force Skills are different than normal skills. WEG should have used a different term, like Force Abilities.
Look at the template for the Alien Student of the Force. He's got 1D in each of the three Force Skills, but he pays for that by only having 15D in attributes and not 18D like the other characters.
That's something to remember if you create a template with a Force User.
Now, once the template is created, you can use dice from your 7D customization pool for skills, but you are still limited by the improvement rules: You can only put 2D from your skill pool into a single Force Skill.
Note that Force Skills are, by design, rare. The Alien Student of the Force is the only template that starts with all three Force Skills.
The Failed Jedi has two.
The Minor Jedi, and the Quixotic have one each.
And, that's it.
So, if you create templates for characters with Force Skills, then remember to remove that starting dice from the character's attribute pool. And, be stingy about giving the template more than one Force Skill at all.
To answer your question: A player could play an Alien Student of the Force and put 2D in each of the three Force Skills, starting with 3D each. But, he would dearly pay for that.
Why?
1st - He'd have to play an Alien Student of the Force. That's the only option with the default templates to get all three Force Skills with a starting character.
2nd - Because the character starts with 3D in the three Force Skills, the character only has a total of 15D spread around his attributes. That's a 3D penalty from most characters.
3rd - The character would have 3D in all three Force Skills, but he's be very weak in the skill department. First, he's starting with lower bases because of his lowered attributes, and he's only got 1D left, from his beginning skill pool, to put into normal skills. Therefore, he'll default on almost every non-Force roll to whatever his attributes are.
It is possible, but is it worth it?
That's for a player to decide. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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| Bren wrote: | | 2. Yes it is a kinda metagamy. Non-force sensitives characters don't have many FPs so they don't use them very often during a session. I can live with that level of metagaminess. |
Just a nit-pick here...
The concept of "Force Sensitivity" came into the game with Second Edition. All characters receive 1 FP at the start, while those characters who are "Force Sensitive" start the game with 2 FPs.
Luke would be a Force Sensitive, of course. And, Han would not.
Strictly speaking 1E, it's not in the the First Edition rules. So, from a 1E point of view, there is no difference between Force Sensitives and non-Force Sensitives, except from a role playing angle. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Zulgyan's Newbie SW 1E Questions |
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| Zulgyan wrote: |
That sourcebook is for 2E right? Which is a quick way for finding out if it is 1E o 2E? Can 2E templates be used as is for 1E? What differences should be taken into account? |
Yes, most sourcebooks are written for 2E. You can easily tell by the stat blocks. 2E has a lot more information.
But, for your purposes, there is absolutely zero difference. You're playing a 1E game. A 2E reference will give you more information in a stat block than you need. Just take the stuff you need for 1E, and ignore the rest.
The only thing that I can think of that you'll have to change is when it comes to vehicles. First Edition uses Speed Codes. Second Edition uses movement rates.
Oh...and Second Edition added more skills. If you see a conflict, it should be easy for you to pick what 1E skill is appropriate. For example, if you see a character with a Starfighter Piloting skills, or a Space Transports skills, you know that those will represent the Starship Piloting skill in 1E.
1E is a lot more simple than 2E. Less skills. Less things to fiddle with.
This may help you... the Second Edition Game Master screen. At the end of it, you'll find some conversion notes from 1E to 2E. If you ever get stuck on anything (you won't), then look there to figure it out. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:00 am Post subject: |
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MANDALORIAN TEMPLATE
I thought it might be fun to slap together a Mandalorian Template real quick. First off, I don't know much about Mandalorians, outside of what I know about Boba and Jango Fett. I don't watch the animated TV shows, and the Mandalorians haven't shown up in any of the books I've read (except the Tales of the Jedi comics I read--and that's been a few years).
The Star Wars Wiki says this is cannon:
| Quote: | Mandalorian was a demonym that referred to the people of the planet Mandalore. Mandalorians also lived on the moon of Mandalore, Concordia, Kalevala, Krownest and the planet Concord Dawn. Mandalore had a warrior past but, by the time of the Clone Wars, adopted the pacifist ideals of the New Mandalorian government, led by Duchess Satine Kryze. This led to conflict with Death Watch, a group of Mandalorians who wanted to return to their culture’s warrior ways.
After the rise of the Galactic Empire, the people of Mandalore lived under the rule of the Empire with Gar Saxon as their Viceroy, while other Mandalorians lived on worlds such as Concord Dawn or throughout the galaxy. |
It sounds like the Mandalorians of today (about the time of ANH) are just a shell of the feared warriors of the past. But, their past has moved into myth.
The OP says that a player wants to play a Mandalorian Mercenary.
Well, let's put one together, real quick.
Mandalorians are human. Thus, we start with a template where all six attributes are at 3D. Now, let's adjust those attributes.
I'd say DEX and STR are needed for combat, since this guy is a merc.
Next, I'd prioritize MEC and TEC, because the merc needs to be able to fly dogfights and repair his armor and equipment.
Lastly, KNO and PER are least on the list, though a good argument could be made to raise PER.
Given this, let's make the Mandalorian template like this...
MANDALORIAN
DEX 4D
STR 3D+2
MEC 3D
TEC 2D+2
PER 2D +2
KNO 2D
Now...what equipment would he have to start with? I want to stick with just the basics--just the stuff in the 1E Core Rulebook.
So...I'd go with a Blaster Rifle and a Blaster Pistol. Vibro Blade. Merc Armor (equivalent to Stormtrooper or Bounty Hunter Armor), 1 thermal detonator, 1000 Credits.
So...here's the final Template.
| Quote: | MANDALORIAN MERCENARY
4D DEXTERITY
3D+2 STRENGTH
3D MECHANICAL
2D+2 TECHNICAL
2D+2 PERCEPTION
2D KNOWLEDGE
EQUIPMENT: Blaster Rifle, Blaster Pistol, Vibro Blade, Mercenary Armor (1D - Former Unit Armor), 1 Thermal Detonator, 1,000 Credits. |
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Zulgyan
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Great job Wajeb! That's amazing.
I've been thinking that if the mandalorian character gets a regular income of credits from the Rebellion, that other characters don't get, maybe he won't get Force Points back at the end of an adventure, as a way of balacing that out. Thoughts? |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Zulgyan wrote: | Great job Wajeb! That's amazing.
I've been thinking that if the mandalorian character gets a regular income of credits from the Rebellion, that other characters don't get, maybe he won't get Force Points back at the end of an adventure, as a way of balacing that out. Thoughts? |
If you do that, then I think you are being a bit too "gamey". The Force is a real thing in this universe. You can't just cut it off because a character is making an income.
Instead, what I would do is cut his starting money. Apples and apples. Outfit him correctly so that the player really doesn't need to buy anything off-the-bat, then cut his starting money to 100 credits.
Then, allow the character to get his 100 credits a month from most starports.
I think that's a better trade-off. The PCs either get a big starting bank of 1,000-2,000 credits, as is on most of the templates, or they get 10% of that up front, with a monthly payment.
Leave the Force alone. The Force can work with a Mandalorian mercenary as well as it can work with a Corillian Smuggler, a Princess from Alderaan, or a farmboy from Tatooine.
EDIT: It might be interesting to have one of the other PCs as the Mandalorian's Rebel contact.
The Mandalorian has no skin in the game. He's not a Rebel. He's a Merc with a job, and his employers happen to be the Rebel Alliance.
You could make an interesting PC connection if one of the other players is the contact that the Mandalorian needs--the other PC will be his Rebel handler, giving him his 100 credits a month, his missions, etc.
Note, though, if you want the Mandalorian to be a true Rebel, I could definitely see that happening with one of them given what I read on the Star Wars wikia. In this time frame--that of ANH and just after the DS is destroyed--there is plenty of reason for the Mandalorians to hate the Empire. This guy could be one that has joined the Rebels.
Or, going back to the original idea, seeing the PC start as a paid mercenary but who, through the adventures in the campaign, becomes a real Rebel, would be an interesting character arc for the Mandalorian character.
Note on Imperial Credits: During this timeframe, the Imperial Credit is universally accepted in the Known Galaxy and considered legal tender. There are two basic ways to transfer payment, electronically through credsticks and credcards, or through coins.
Most civilians use credsticks as it is an easy way to carry and access a person's value. But, electronic transfer is also a leash to the local governments. Too much information is transferred, along with a person's balance, when credsticks are used.
This is why the Fringe prefers coins. Not traceable. Note that Han Solo, when he is paid at Yavin, is paid in low denomination Imperial coins--boxes and boxes of them. You can see Han and Chewie loading them on the Falcon just before the Death Star run in ANH.
My guess is that your Mandalorian, and your Rebels, will use coins, not credsticks, for the same reason Han Solo does. He wants to stay under the rader--and the Rebels wouldn't want the Empire to track them easily through monetary payments.
With coins comes issues. Weight, for one. They're not easy to carry around. With a credtick, a PC can access his entire wealth on the spot. Not so much if he is carrying coin (unless he doesn't have much wealth).
PC will have to stash their coins someplace for safe keeping, and decide how much they are carrying on them when the leave the ship.
Last edited by Wajeb Deb Kaadeb on Wed May 17, 2017 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zulgyan
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Great job Wajeb! That's amazing.
I've been thinking that if the mandalorian character gets a regular income of credits from the Rebellion, that other characters don't get, maybe he won't get Force Points back at the end of an adventure, as a way of balacing that out. Thoughts?
Last edited by Zulgyan on Wed May 17, 2017 12:00 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Zulgyan wrote: | Great job Wajeb! That's amazing.
I've been thinking that if the mandalorian character gets a regular income of credits from the Rebellion, that other characters don't get, maybe he won't get Force Points back at the end of an adventure, as a way of balacing that out. Thoughts? |
Looks like a double post. See my edit above, too. |
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