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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | In case its helpful, the kneeling and prone positions generally presume the availability of cover OR an engagement from quite far away (enough of a distance such that maneuvering through open terrain is more dangerous than just hitting the deck). |
Trying to accurately represent that is what's hanging me up on this one. How would you recommend solving it?
| Quote: | There is a strange thing that I call the Call of Duty Phenomenon wherein people think that COD is any kind of realistic. Someone (a navy veteran and avid COD player) once asked at work if when moving "tactically" in the open and encountering an enemy at close range, would it he wise to drop to the prone in order to be a smaller target and stabilize the shooting position since it works in COD.
No one bothered to answer him... |
I can hardly claim any expertise in the field, but I would assume that, in open terrain, mobility would be better than lying on the ground. That's something I'd like to try and represent with this rule. Unfortunately, real-world rules may not apply as well in a cinematic universe. A 1D or 2D penalty to Dodge makes the nearest bit of cover look like a fine option for the average mook with a 2D Dex and no points in Dodge, but a PC with a Dodge of 5D or more might just take his chances and pull a Col. Kilgore, standing out in the open like a bad-@$$ and depending on his Dodge to protect him better than diving into a foxhole...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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dic1
Cadet
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 24
Location: Sydney, Australlia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Unfortunately, real-world rules may not apply as well in a cinematic universe. A 1D or 2D penalty to Dodge makes the nearest bit of cover look like a fine option for the average mook with a 2D Dex and no points in Dodge, but a PC with a Dodge of 5D or more might just take his chances and pull a Col. Kilgore, standing out in the open like a bad-@$$ and depending on his Dodge to protect him better than diving into a foxhole... |
At which point everyone combines fire on the target in the open "He didn't dive for cover he's gonna do something heroic quick shoot him" 
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| R&E p.101 wrote: | | For unusual movements — such as swimming or climbing — the Move is normally one-third the character's Move; adjust this rate at your discretion.) |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | I'd say the average PC has at least four different base Moves, depending on the method of locomotion they are using:Running: 10
Crouched Running: 5
Crawling: 3
Swimming: 2 Which one your character uses is dependant on conditions, and each has its own advantages and disadvantages. |
I like this, but don't forget about climbing. However climbing rates could vary drastically depending on the level of incline and the surface being climbed.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dic1 wrote: | | At which point everyone combines fire on the target in the open "He didn't dive for cover he's gonna do something heroic quick shoot him" |
That's where you start running into Command skill rolls to combine fire. Per the RAW, you can only command 1 other character per D in the Command skill, which then translates into a +1 to Blaster for every person being Commanded. It provides some advantage at lower levels, but again, as the target's Dodge skill scales up, the coordination bonuses for Command just can't match.
I have serious problems with how Command is used in the RAW, and think we need a better system, but based on what WEG gave us...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | However climbing rates could vary drastically depending on the level of incline and the surface being climbed. |
Exactly. Someone climbing a ladder will move far more quickly than someone free-climbing a sheer cliff using only finger- and toe-holds.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | dic1 wrote: | | At which point everyone combines fire on the target in the open "He didn't dive for cover he's gonna do something heroic quick shoot him" |
That's where you start running into Command skill rolls to combine fire. Per the RAW, you can only command 1 other character per D in the Command skill, which then translates into a +1 to Blaster for every person being Commanded. It provides some advantage at lower levels, but again, as the target's Dodge skill scales up, the coordination bonuses for Command just can't match.
I have serious problems with how Command is used in the RAW, and think we need a better system, but based on what WEG gave us... |
Well, it also says that the # can be increased based on skill level and how familiar the people are.. Elite troopers (which is what stormies are supposedly are) would count.
I also remember someone saying that it specifies somewhere that storm troopers don't NEED to be commanded to gain that benefit.. Though i have no idea where it is if it exists.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Well, it also says that the # can be increased based on skill level and how familiar the people are.. Elite troopers (which is what stormies are supposedly are) would count.
I also remember someone saying that it specifies somewhere that storm troopers don't NEED to be commanded to gain that benefit.. Though i have no idea where it is if it exists. |
That rule was actually in 1E, but has since been moderated, as the original version had no upward limit for how many stormtroopers could coordinate fire. Depending on which coordination bonus system you were using, a battalion of stormtroopers could conceivably combine enough firepower with their blaster rifles to take out a Death Star.
But yes, I agree that elites or characters who have worked with eachother long enough should be able to waive those restrictions.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so, based on the discussion so far...Kneeling / Crouched Movement
Increases Cover / Protection by 25% (see 2R&E, pg. 93-94; any Cover bonus can also be applied to Sneak skill rolls)
+1D to Blaster or Firearms if not moving
-1D to Dodge
Cannot Move at All-Out Speed
Crawling
Increases Cover effectiveness by 50% (see 2R&E, pg. 93-94; any Cover bonus can also be applied to Sneak skill rolls)
+2D to Blaster or Firearms if not moving
-2D to Dodge
Move reduced by 75% (rounded up)
Transitioning from Standing to Crouch or vice versa is a Free Action, but transitioning from Standing or Crouching to Prone (or vice versa) is a Non Roll Action.
Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Concerning my recommended solution, you already covered tyat you want dodge to be possible while prone. So, how about this: whilee prone a character may either dodge OR take other actions. In other words, a prone character rolling out of the way of a blast (or whatever) ruins his stable platform.
Its actually a lot of work getting "into position" while prone (if one hopes to benefit his shooting, that is). Whereas while standing or kneeling, its a far simpler and easier affair.
So, if you dodge, can't do anything else that round. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| But just so we are clear, even though I disallow dodge while prone, I do increase the difficulty for an attacker who selects a prone target. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Okay, so, based on the discussion so far...Kneeling / Crouched Movement
Increases Cover / Protection by 1/4 (see 2R&E, pg. 93-94; any Cover bonus can also be applied to Sneak skill rolls)
+1D to Blaster or Firearms if not moving
-1D to Dodge
Cannot Move at All-Out Speed
Crawling
Increases Cover effectiveness by (see 2R&E, pg. 93-94; any Cover bonus can also be applied to Sneak skill rolls)
+2D to Blaster or Firearms if not moving
-2D to Dodge
Move reduced by 75% (rounded up)Can't move at all out or double speed
Transitioning from Standing to Crouch or vice versa is a Free Action, but transitioning from Standing or Crouching to Prone (or vice versa) is a Non Roll Action.
Thoughts? |
Only correction i saw was added in red.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Only correction i saw was added in red. |
See my previous post where I explained why I didn't agree with that rule.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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While I'm on the subject, shouldn't Crawling provide a bonus of +1D or 2D to Running/Agility when on Terrain of Difficult or higher?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | While I'm on the subject, shouldn't Crawling provide a bonus of +1D or 2D to Running/Agility when on Terrain of Difficult or higher? |
Not a bad idea. Though depending on how "free form" you like to play, this might already be taken into account by RAW because going slower reduces the difficulty (which, some could say represents "crawling" across areas which are too treacherous to walk/run/sprint across). |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Okay, so, based on the discussion so far...Kneeling / Crouched Movement
Increases Cover / Protection by 25% (see 2R&E, pg. 93-94; any Cover bonus can also be applied to Sneak skill rolls)
+1D to Blaster or Firearms if not moving
-1D to Dodge
Cannot Move at All-Out Speed
Crawling
Increases Cover effectiveness by 50% (see 2R&E, pg. 93-94; any Cover bonus can also be applied to Sneak skill rolls)
+2D to Blaster or Firearms if not moving
-2D to Dodge
Move reduced by 75% (rounded up)
Transitioning from Standing to Crouch or vice versa is a Free Action, but transitioning from Standing or Crouching to Prone (or vice versa) is a Non Roll Action.
Thoughts? |
I like this, too. (sorry about the thread necro  ) |
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