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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not disputing whether an ion weapon could affect cybernetics. However, where in the RAW does it say that the ionization carries over to the cyborg's non-cybernetic parts? If people have house rules to that effect, fine, but someone's house rule shouldn't be allowed to dictate how everyone else plays.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Namely that's not how ion damage works (there is no putting in cutouts to lessen the damage to ships/droids etc.. |
There is no mention anywhere in the RAW of ion damage carrying over to the crew or passengers of an affected ship or vehicle, so obviously there is some form of protection. |
But those crew don't have a direct link into the ship like the wearer of that suit of armor proposed would..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But those crew don't have a direct link into the ship like the wearer of that suit of armor proposed would.. |
So, again, where is the reference that cyborgs, who are directly wired into their systems, take splash damage from the ionization?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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RedKnight
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| i may be thinking of the wrong edition i appologize - i'm less familiar with D6 then i like since my group when we've played star wars in the past (Except for my attempt at runing D6) pretty much ran Saga where i -think- it effects the attached organics....ignore me! |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | But those crew don't have a direct link into the ship like the wearer of that suit of armor proposed would.. |
So, again, where is the reference that cyborgs, who are directly wired into their systems, take splash damage from the ionization? |
Let me check through the crackens guides and such to see if i can find anything.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
I could see it combining with something like the RiMPack system from Cracken's Rebel Field Guide, where it actually interfaces with the wearer's nervous system, but that's a step further than what I was thinking in the OP. |
I would tend to think that that is a bit too far, as well. Seems like the wrong kind of sci-fi... although, I suppose Darth Vader represents something somewhat like this (as far as being wired into an armored suit). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| RedKnight wrote: | | i may be thinking of the wrong edition i appologize - i'm less familiar with D6 then i like since my group when we've played star wars in the past (Except for my attempt at runing D6) pretty much ran Saga where i -think- it effects the attached organics....ignore me! |
Not at all. If Saga included something like this, we'd appreciate your input.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | I would tend to think that that is a bit too far, as well. Seems like the wrong kind of sci-fi... although, I suppose Darth Vader represents something somewhat like this (as far as being wired into an armored suit). |
Maybe something like the spinal interface used by Dr. Octopus in Spider-Man 2, where it isn't a permanent implant...
I know Space Marine Power Armor in Warhammer 40K used a neural interface of some kind, but IIRC, it tied in with the bio ware implants that were part of what made them Space Marines.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, the "ion weapons have a bonus against the cyborged" is another of those things that I'm sure was in there, but I can't find right now.
The SAGA rule was that whatever was rolled for Ion damage only did half damage in HP; for purely biologicals, that was all. Roll 18 damage on an ion attack, you take 9 HP and move on. For droids, devices, and cybernetic characters, if the unhalved damage was enough to exceed your Damage Threshold, you moved down TWO spaces on the Condition track, instead of just one as would be normal. If ion damage dropped you to 0 HP, you went down 5 spaces on the condition track. CT damage could be harder to heal, and was more impairing... someone with 40 HP getting hit for 39, 1 HP wounds would be relatively ok. If they were hit for 1 39 HP wound, they've likely slipped down the CT and are taking penalties.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well, i looked through Crackens, and saw nothing what so ever on damage for cybernetics, other than the specific items write ups for what happens on failures..
So whether they even are affected by ion weapons or not, is not covered. Let alone what happens if someone with a cybernetic implant gets hit by ions, does it also affect his nervous system etc....
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Yeah, the "ion weapons have a bonus against the cyborged" is another of those things that I'm sure was in there, but I can't find right now. |
I've read through pretty much everything WEG published for Star Wars, and I don't recall any mention of ion weapons affecting organics. While I don't think this is entirely accurate (if nothing else, charged particles moving at a significant fraction of the speed of light are going to pack a punch), the fact that we don't know exactly how ion cannon do what they do makes it difficult to say for certain.
I'm working on the theory that, since electrons are central to the transmission of electricity in metal, and ions are atoms or molecules which have lost or gained an electron, an ion cannon fires a packet of atoms that have lost an electron. Upon impact with an electrically-conducting target (i.e. one with active electronics systems with electrical power running through cables), the negatively charged ions (the ones lacking electrons) draw off electrons from the target's electronics, thus disrupting the functioning of its electrical system. The flickering lightning seen on the target's hull / surface is the target's own electrons being drawn off and combined with the negatively charged ions from the ion cannon, resulting in neutral particles and a temporarily disrupted target (until sufficient electrons are drawn off to neutralize the charge of the ion cannon), which explains the temporary effect of ion cannons in the game.
The end result is that any peripheral electrical damage to organics would be purely incidental
| Quote: | | The SAGA rule was that whatever was rolled for Ion damage only did half damage in HP; for purely biologicals, that was all. Roll 18 damage on an ion attack, you take 9 HP and move on. For droids, devices, and cybernetic characters, if the unhalved damage was enough to exceed your Damage Threshold, you moved down TWO spaces on the Condition track, instead of just one as would be normal. If ion damage dropped you to 0 HP, you went down 5 spaces on the condition track. CT damage could be harder to heal, and was more impairing... someone with 40 HP getting hit for 39, 1 HP wounds would be relatively ok. If they were hit for 1 39 HP wound, they've likely slipped down the CT and are taking penalties. |
So, since we don't use hit points, what would be a better equivalent? 1 Stun for every 2D of Ionization damage? Would the reverse be true? Stun damage inflicting 1/2 Ionization damage?
As an aside, garhkal, exactly how common are ion weapons in your game? Ion weaponry seems to be your go-to argument every time someone introduces a piece of tech, yet they are used exactly twice in seven films.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So whether they even are affected by ion weapons or not, is not covered. Let alone what happens if someone with a cybernetic implant gets hit by ions, does it also affect his nervous system etc.... |
I think it depends on what exactly ion cannon do. If they deliver an electrical charge to disrupt electronics, then damage to the cyborg is likely. If, however, they carry a negative charge that merely draws off electricity, then the possibility of damage to the cyborg is greatly reduced.
As far as protective cut-outs go, their effectiveness would vary greatly depending on the above. If ion blasts only affect electronics, with damage to attached organics being purely incidental, then a protective cut-out would be a piece of cake, and purely a matter of cost. If however, as MrNexx indicated, ion cannons also inflict damage to the organic parts (just not as much), then a cut-out would be all but pointless.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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AH-HAH! I found a reference in REUP!
Page 353, under the "Ion Pistol"
"An ion pistols blast has no effect on organic targets,
unless such targets have cybernetic replacements."
So, I would say an ion pistol aimed at a cyborg affects it like a droid.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | AH-HAH! I found a reference in REUP!
Page 353, under the "Ion Pistol"
"An ion pistols blast has no effect on organic targets,
unless such targets have cybernetic replacements."
So, I would say an ion pistol aimed at a cyborg affects it like a droid. |
Okay, but what KIND of effect? This does nothing to clear up whether ion blasts effect organic parts. I don't think anyone is arguing that exposed cybernetics would be unaffected by an ion blast just because they are connected to a living being...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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