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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Tinman wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | Hmmm... that's interesting. I always figured that the separation between droid tech skills and computer tech skills was due to the fact that droids have a body with moving parts and such, while computers just have information: the droid programming/repair (or engineering) would require the technician to be able to make the droid "brain" (a computer, by my understanding) interface with the body.
At best (and this is just one way to do it, if one wants to get so technical) I see the "droid brain" being some kind of module that handles the "droid" stuff, while the main thing is still a regular computer. |
Well, someone skilled in Computer Programming/Repair or (A) Computer Engineering would probably understand the theory involved in the workings of droid brains quite well, and even grasp some of the application particulars. However, things like construction, deployment and operational parameters would be beyond them without the sort of specialized training and education someone with a degree of skill in Droid Programming or (A) Droid Engineering has. |
In my view, most droids have too defining aspects that differentiate them from regular computers. (1) Artificial Intelligence which is just an advanced computer program and the physical construct for this AI to function (the "droid brain"), and (2) a motile "body". Yes it is true that a good droid technician would need to be able to be able to repair the body and deal with the "mind/body" interface (that RAW's computer programming/repair wouldn't handle), but dealing with the AI aspect of droids (that regular computers don't have) should also be more advanced Computer Programming. Since the two skills overlap in this way, I just combined them into a single skill, Computers/Droids. In general working with droids requires more advanced ability than just regular computers without AI or bodies.
I think putting droid brains in ships may be mainly for the extra memory and computer processing power, but the dangers of installing droid brains on your ship come from the unpredictability that AI brings if things go sour ("I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.") But of course in the game there's fun in that. I love quirky starships and droid brains on ships, so I've done that before. I don't like the idea of droid brains controlling vital functions in combat. I like things like the ship won't open doors without you saying please, or it plays music throughout the ship that it feels is appropriate to whatever is happening, like "battle" music it plays during space combat. I've had ships where the droid brains are hidden in the ship somewhere and can't be locate, and the droid's programming even has multiple back-ups throughout the ship so if one location is found the droid's "mind" can "escape" to somewhere else in the ship. |
Problems like disobedience can be minimized by using Loyalty Imprinting software. For example:
Cybot Galactica GV Series Guardian Droid
Loyalty Imprint: Absolute obedience to master and designated family members. Will react in potential threat situations to defend would-be attackers unless directly countermanded by designated family member.
Source: Galladinium’s Fantastic Technology (pages 20-21), Arms and Equipment Guide (page 59)
BDG Bodyguard Droid
Loyalty: When first put into service, a bodyguard droid downloads all available information on the individual it is assigned to protect. The droid is now unswervingly loyal to that individual, and will protect him at all costs. A standard memory wipe is necessary to terminate this loyalty programming, but another individual could then be “bonded” to that particular droid.
Source: Lords of the Expanse – Sector Guide (page 43)
Imagine some slob pulls a blaster on a ship's captain and the ship's AI slams a hatch shut between the captain and his would be attacker while turning off the gravity and opening all hatches leading to the airlock, or maybe just venting enough atmosphere from a compartment to render the hostile unconscious. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
In my view, most droids have too defining aspects that differentiate them from regular computers. (1) Artificial Intelligence which is just an advanced computer program and the physical construct for this AI to function (the "droid brain"), and (2) a motile "body". Yes it is true that a good droid technician would need to be able to be able to repair the body and deal with the "mind/body" interface (that RAW's computer programming/repair wouldn't handle), but dealing with the AI aspect of droids (that regular computers don't have) should also be more advanced Computer Programming. Since the two skills overlap in this way, I just combined them into a single skill, Computers/Droids. In general working with droids requires more advanced ability than just regular computers without AI or bodies.
I think putting droid brains in ships may be mainly for the extra memory and computer processing power, but the dangers of installing droid brains on your ship come from the unpredictability that AI brings if things go sour ("I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.") But of course in the game there's fun in that. I love quirky starships and droid brains on ships, so I've done that before. I don't like the idea of droid brains controlling vital functions in combat. I like things like the ship won't open doors without you saying please, or it plays music throughout the ship that it feels is appropriate to whatever is happening, like "battle" music it plays during space combat. I've had ships where the droid brains are hidden in the ship somewhere and can't be locate, and the droid's programming even has multiple back-ups throughout the ship so if one location is found the droid's "mind" can "escape" to somewhere else in the ship. |
You raise an excellent point, Whill. In modern sports cars, skilled drivers (racecar drivers, for example, but even lesser credentialed persons) often complain when the computer interferes with their inputs for the sake of "safety." Essentially, the computer overrides or "corrects" what it perceives as errors in driver input. This usually results in a slower lap time or other manifestation that limits how fast the car can be lapped around the track... and that's without venturing into the Star Wars AI level of computer involvement. |
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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | You raise an excellent point, Whill. In modern sports cars, skilled drivers (racecar drivers, for example, but even lesser credentialed persons) often complain when the computer interferes with their inputs for the sake of "safety." Essentially, the computer overrides or "corrects" what it perceives as errors in driver input. This usually results in a slower lap time or other manifestation that limits how fast the car can be lapped around the track... and that's without venturing into the Star Wars AI level of computer involvement. |
What you're describing has relevance when it comes to things like removing Life Preservation Programming from droids. It's a difficult process which involves more than simple programming alterations, due to the fact that you're working with an intelligent machine which has those basic restrictions implemented on the level of core design. (Even fourth degree droids have limited LPP.) It requires a Droid Programming roll (the difficulty of which depends on the droid degree) and an opposed (by the droid) Command roll in order to accomplish that. (Presumably, a droid will attempt to re-implement its own LPP unless you successfully convince it not to.) That's yet another situation which someone trained only in basic computer technology would have little understanding of, because they're not technically familiar with the real time/real world operational aspects involved, though a computer engineer may understand the nitty gritty theoretic principles.
A good example of what could go wrong when a computer programmer is not experienced in dealing with artificially intelligent systems is what happened with HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey. What happened there was that mission planners ordered that HAL be given a direct overriding instruction not to reveal the true nature of the mission to the flight crew (for security reasons, the scientific crew was trained separately.) HAL's core design principle was "the accurate processing and representation of information without distortion or concealment," and giving him that instruction created a conflict which could only be resolved by killing the crew.
HAL's designer was royally pissed off when he finally found out some idiot had done that, incidentally. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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You sure are into the droid AI thing...  Does this have anything to do with your username, perchance? |
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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | You sure are into the droid AI thing... Does this have anything to do with your username, perchance? |
I am not the droid you're looking for. Move along.  |
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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JironGhrad
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I don't really see much evidence of computer networking in SWU, but I'm mostly limited to the OT. |
This most probably due to the fact that networks as we understand them today were not in common use when Star Wars was written. There are numerous examples of things that, realistically, would be networked together to function (holonet communications, various sub-systems on ships) but at the time when this was being created, mainframes with associated dumb terminals were the primary form of 'networks' that existed outside the military framework.
As a network guy, I'd argue that with as many different planets in the Republic/Empire, at least some of them use our style of networking. Some likely developed alternate forms as well, but I think that it'd be up to a GM to decide whether 'modern' networking is applicable to a given storyline.
If I were going to incorporate droids/AI into ships (ala Dash Rendar's Outrider), I'd pick a less well-known ship type to explain potential tech differences. |
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