Tramp Freighters underwater

[Rusharn]

So my players have screwed up royal. Their splicer not only failed to hack into a top secret Imperial research facility but failed so badly that when he failed he didn't realized that he had been traced. The first point where the players realized something was wrong, was when an imperial ISB team was slipping a gravity lock on their landing gear. Long story short, they cleared the gravity lock but during the battle a tank got rolled in and damaged their Ion Drive. They took off, evaded the initial barrage of AA laser fire from the star port, but they remember that two squadrons of TIE Interceptors had landed at the port a week earlier (and correctly) assume that they will be launched to chase them down. They know with their damaged drive there is no way they can out run them and their only laser turret was damaged and they haven't repaired it yet.

The planet they are on has a large body of water and the idea they had just before the session ended was to ditch the ship into the ocean. If it can survive space, hyperspace and hits from laser cannons it can handle 50 to 100 meters of water right?

I left them on that cliff hanger both because we were out of time and so I could look up rules for star ships in water. Does anyone know of where any rules for dealing with star ships being submerged are or any threads that might be good to reference? Are their any rules on sensors and scanning through bodies of water to search, say for a submerged vessel?



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[Raven Redstar]

There are large differences to the amount of pressure between a vacuum and underwater. So, there's that. Although, 100m shouldn't be a huge issue for a space craft. Then, is it fresh water or salt water? This can cause issues, as well as flooding of the engines. Without aquatic modifications it's very unlikely that they'll ever get their ship back out of the water without getting additional equipment to salvage it off of the floor of the lake/sea/whatever.
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[cheshire]

As for me and my game, I'd say a qualified no.

Space is a different environment than water. IIRC there was a Calamari freighter, the Deep-Water-class light freighter. Page 61 of Stock Ships provides the details of some of the differences between space and water travel, and even that specialized ship needs to be reconfigured to move between space and water travel.

If it were my game, I'd rule that the PC's ship could stay afloat with the pressurized hull. But if they start taking on water, things could go badly. I'd say that their atmospheric drives are likely to take a beating from the water, and are unlikely to function. They could probably use their repulsorlift engines to paddle to an small island.
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[Rusharn]

It is fresh water.

I was just wondering if there is an official rules set for dealing with this situation and if not, is there are any appropriate rules sections that could be reasonably applied to this situation. If not is there a thread in the house rules section dealing with similar situations? Can any one recall any situation in any Star Wars material. I mean this is not just Luke's x-wing landing in the swamp, they are intending to still be in their ship when they take a 100m dive into a fresh water ocean. Would their repulsor engines work under water even if it's poorly?

[MrNexx]

I don't know of any (but my grasp of the rules beyond RE is pretty basic), but I'd be inclined to allow them to use their repulsorlift to get back out of the water.... but I'd also be inclined to roll some damage to see if their systems got damaged from the soaking, and it would be even worse if they tried to immediately go into space (as the water would either freeze or sublimate, both of which would suck).
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[Tinman]

I don't recall having seen this covered anywhere in the rules as written. The nearest thing I can think of is the use of fuel converter scoops, which are mentioned as being sometimes used to gather water for fuel conversion by dipping ships into oceans (Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters, WEG40095.)

I would just say that a ship which had more than a quick dip while in flight would require some "maintenance" before it was considered spaceworthy again, even if that just involved flushing out various parts of it and letting them dry out. (I'm picturing R2-D2 spitting out swamp water and mud on Dagobah.)

Trying to scan for submerged vessels might pose a problem without scanning equipment designed for doing that. The core rulebook describes different sorts of ship sensors, and with a little thought one could see how some would be better at detecting a submerged ship than others. They don't all come standard on every ship either. The sort of sensor suite scout ships ordinarily use would be less easy to hide from that way, as they're designed for planetary analysis.

[shootingwomprats]

Well I am pretty sure it is not covered in any official rules by WEG and I cannot think of a fan-made set that includes them either. My best advice is whatever makes for the best story and the most fun!

In my game, I think I would allow it, but there are going to be ramifications for the ship and its going to take some doing to get that ship back.

As others have shared, it is made for space, yes its leak proof and has radiation shielding and all sorts of cool things, but it is not made for being underwater.

Can they sink the ship? Certainly, it doesn't take anything to open a sealed cargo hold and let it fill with water until the ship sinks. If not then they need to open additional compartments and flood them.

Now this is where things can get dicey for the players. I as a GM would rule they could flood a cargo hold with few issues for the rest of the ship. Most cargo holds are designed to different types of conditions including vacuum. If they have to flood additional compartments, as the interior of the ship is not designed for water its gonna take some hits.

Even if they are able to submerge the vessel and it doesn't take any additional damage from this, when they do decide they want the ship back, the cargo bay and airlocks are not designed to pump water out. They are designed to to remove or add atmosphere. Yes they are pumps but no the same type of pump.

Once they are able t get aboard the ship I would say they could use the repulsor motors to bring the ship to the surface with little issue, probably the same for lifting off.

There are a lot of logistics in this, but as the GM, and since its your game, you can hand-wave whatever you don't want to deal with and just say, "Yeah you do it."
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[thedemonapostle]

went and looked up some facts, hope my math is right. at sea level, earth air pressure is around 14.7 psi. at 100 meters below sea water, the pressure is at 142.060372 psi. thats nearly 10 atmospheres of pressure, hope im saying that right.

now if it were my game, id probably give it limited time before a seal broke, or an exhaust port gave in to the pressure, or the glass broke, etc.

off the top of my head id go with something like X rounds per D of Hull = total time under water before really bad things start happening.
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[garhkal]

I can't see anything. And this is something i don't even thing WOTC looked into.. Since they are already holed in a way (Ion engine damage and the turret), i could see that already compromising their hull integrity. So right there you have 2 potential sources for water leaking in...
BUT at 100 m down, they COULD be ok to blow a window out and try to swim up.. but that's a LONG way to swim without breathing.
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[Rusharn]

They do actually have an internal drawing of their ships and have included several bulkheads in their deck plan so flooding specific sections is possible without flooding the whole ship, but I agree that while the external of the ship could handle being submerged, internal sections not so much.

I think what I'll go with, is allowing them to limp along on replusor drives, allowing them to flood sections to increase their depth, putting those scholar skills to work to determine which section would give them the right amount of depth and not tip the ship too much one direction or not, but making them take damage on the light damage chart every time they do. Then I can get one of those WWII submarine scenes with TIE bombers over head dropping charges on them trying to take them out as they use sensors to find thermo layers and use their own sensors to try and jam scans.

I think I'll let the ship handle 100m of depth but anything beyond that I'll treat as the beginning of crush depth. Also with they will have to be careful about how much water they let in. With their internal drawing of their ship, I can calculate the sq ft of each section so I'll know how much the water they let in weights. If they exceed the 100 tons that their ship can carry by too much then the repulsors will not be strong enough to get them back to the surface without them pumping the water out. With water being fairly heavy they'll probably have to be very careful. Who said I would never put my physics classes to use, math here I come.

One more note as they get deeper, water is more compressed causing concussion waves to travel farther with more force. Does someone have a water depth / damage multiplier chart for the d6 system? If not, I'll just look up the mathematical equations and put together one.

As for bailing the ship I recall free diving, you could go as far as 30m with acceptable strain on your body and minimal equalizing. At 100m if I am remembering correctly thee would have to be two stops on the way up to equalize, assuming the equalized before entering the water. Though if their is a diving expert in the forum I would love to hear from them.

[garhkal]

[Volar the Healer]

I don't know of any official rule, but I would say a spacecraft could easily hide underwater. Could it be found with sensors? Maybe.

searching Sensor skill+starship sensor rating vs. hiding Pilot's skill + ship's stealth rating.

So...maybe.
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[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

I can see his point, if the idea is that the pilot is deliberately positioning his ship in a location or trajectory designed to be more difficult for sensors to detect. Jets and submarines do similar things, using radar dead zones of hills or buildings in the case of aircraft, or (in the case of subs) hiding below thermocline layers or "bottoming out" to reduce the effectiveness of opposed sensors. The effectiveness of the technique depends greatly on the skill of the pilot performing it.
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[CRMcNeill]

A point worth considering is that the only dual mode ship in existence (the MonCal DeepWater-Class Light Freighter) has to spend a round (?) reconfiguring from flight mode to submersible mode. The exact rule is in Stock Ships, which I don't have available at the moment.

In connection, remember that the hull stresses involved are completely opposite between space and water. Where a ship in space is resisting the internal atmosphere trying to push out into the surrounding vacuum, a ship underwater will be resisting massive external pressure of water trying to push inward.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index