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wildfire
Lieutenant Commander
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Assuran
Cadet
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Location: Central Ohio
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I've edited the post because the link was trying to display a player, and it wouldn't work.
The link is now clickable!
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Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
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aegisflashfire
Commander
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Little confused why you tried to review something you've not seen yet, and only got my brief synopsis. The 4-way battle hasn't even aired yet (next week)
but to answer some of the questions:
Pickpocking is NOT necessarily a dexterity skill. Or more precisely, it is a skill that involves more than manual dexterity (though its absolutely a prerequisite) Darren Brown does a great explanation of the skill with a master pickpocket, in the show Brain Games. Its all about misdirection; pulling someone's focus away from the 'real thing' was the reason I elected to allow it; its about forcing your mark to look at one thing, and not at something else.
Yes, I'm absolutely familiar with the combined actions rule BUT as you pointed out, they're anemic at best, and no matter how many combined actions were involved, how many force points spent, the fight would literally be over in 1-2 rounds AT BEST. That makes for a horribly crappy climax. While I admire your ongoing quest to do things by the rules or make up new rules to fit a given situation, it really isn't in the spirit of the Star Wars RPG to get terribly nitpicky. I'd rather cooperatively tell a story with my players. This solution gives my players more narrative control, allows them to get more into the description than just what I say. In some ways, it is a bit like Fate (I actually borrowed the technique from D&D 4th, and adapted it for D6. If you want to listen to at least an intriguing gameplay story, I highly recommend listening to Critical Hit --try to get past the fact that it's D&D 4th... I still hate most of that system)
Finally, if we go strictly by RAW, then there is nearly always an optimal attack strategy. Roll the most dice to hit, with the weapon that does the most damage. But even a casual examination of the lightsaber battles anywhere in the canon, quickly shows that's not how these battles really are 'supposed' to play out.
In ESB's Vader vs. Luke battle (and working from memory only) I see the following skills being used.
Jumping, acrobatics, Dex (balance), Lightsaber, Telekinesis (to summon a weapon), Telekinesis (to hurl objects), Reduce Injury (control), Control Pain (control), Some form of repair-skill or knowledge to recognize cryo-vapor as potentially a weapon, some form of Tech skill to use the carbon freeze, persuasion, brawling, brawling parry.
Looking at the Obi-Wan, Vader fight in RotS, you can also throw in Repulsorlift Operation, Geology, Stamina, Dodge, Droid Programming/repair, more technical rolls, etc.
If you WANT your lightsaber battles to look like the movies then you need to force players to think inventively. This accomplished almost exactly what I hoped for (I think it should have gone longer, in retrospect I would have included a few more rounds, it was, after all, the climax)
For future reference, Aegisflashfire= Aegis (ˈē-jəs or ˈā-jəs) Flashfire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aegis
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aegisflashfire
Commander
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 298
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Since you're looking for feedback on the podcast in general--
This is a bit of pot & kettle but here goes.
I would ditch some of the scripted stuff. You guys are at your most interesting and entertaining when you're just talking back and forth, but there are moments it feels over-planned or you're reading planned jokes; the humor fails for me, and those are probably my least favorite parts.
The audio quality is hurting you a lot. Again, this is a bit of pot & kettle, but try multiple recordings, Listening to the audio it sounds like you're skyping your conversations and then recording them. You might consider both recording on your own pc, with headphones on so you can reply, but not have the audio pickup other than on your side. Then combine the files, muting the tracks when the other is talking. its more work, but it would really clean up the audio. Are you using Audacity for recording?
The next issue is also a technical one, the feed seems somehow screwed up. I deleted the original feed from before your move --and reloaded it, that helped, but the most recent episode still isnt playable on iTunes, but is listed)
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Daniel here.
I haven't the foggiest where I got the impression that the combat had already occurred. I guess I misread the thread and ran with it. I do apologize, and promise that won't happen again.
The listen and reply thing is interesting, and with us going bi-weekly, we may have time for it. The downside is that that will overwork our already maxed editor. The sound quality will always be a thorn in our side as long as Don and I are 878 miles apart, unless we try your suggestion.
We don't really script that much. All we have is an outline that shows what we discuss. The only real scripted event is Don's posts.
We needed this feedback, Jesse. Thank you.
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Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2269
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, I had no idea you guys were so far apart. I always thought you were both in the same room together doing this! 
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I've been on the show. I can attest that it is not scripted. The banter is real banter. It's actually one of the things I really like about the show.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2690
Location: Online
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm scripted? Some is scripted, but most, 90% or more is just us giving our comments on stuff. Though some of it admittedly sounds pretty wooden even to me.
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Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16259
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I guess I misread the thread and ran with it. I do apologize, and promise that won't happen again. |
On a similar note, I was rather disappointed with your coverage of the Damage Control concept. I checked all four pages of the topic, and there are no comments by you guys at all, despite the statements on the podcast to the commentary. On top of that, the fact that we did generate a Damage Control rule that achieved minor consensus (me, garhkal and jmanski) wasn't even mentioned.
With regards to the Communications , your commentary was essentially a paraphrasing of Fallon Kell's comment from the first page, while the topic itself recently hit page 12, and moved far beyond the basic details on the first page. At this point, it isn't much of a finished project that will really prove useful to other gamers; that will come later when Mikael starts compiling a variety of topics into a single tome that weaves together several threads he is working on.
On the positive side, I enjoyed the discussion of Criminal Organizations, and the gamemastering tips to keep everyone involved. With regards to splitting the party, it may be a challenge, but it is worth noting that it is a very Star Wars thing to do. The finales of TPM, TESB and ROTJ all involved dividing the party and facing them with their own challenges and opponents, as well as skipping between scenes to keep people on their toes by ending the scene at a cliffhanger moment. I have also found that this is one of the few ways to allow parties that include Jedi to battle a Sith or Dark Jedi without the entire party piling in and overwhelming him; by giving the non-Jedi characters their own enemies to fight and their own missions to compete, it allows for the Jedi to face off in battle against his opponent without interference. After all, in the films, you never see a lightsaber fight interrupted by sniping blaster shots from the Jedi's teammates.
Also, an episode or two back you talked about the Force Attribute concept and how you would be coming back to it. The topic itself has gone dormant, but towards the end I did put together a summary rule for converting from the RAW to a Force Attribute. I won't claim to have achieved consensus on the matter, but nobody commented that they hated the idea (and sometimes that is as close to consensus as we get around here). Anyway, give it a look; it might be good fodder for the buffet.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Daniel here, handling crmcneill's comments.
| Quote: | On a similar note, I was rather disappointed with your coverage of the Damage Control concept. I checked all four pages of the topic, and there are no comments by you guys at all, despite the statements on the podcast to the commentary. On top of that, the fact that we did generate a Damage Control rule that achieved minor consensus (me, garhkal and jmanski) wasn't even mentioned.
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We don't track how far a thread has gone. That isn't considered when we tackle a subject. We don't think about consensus either. We saw your post about it, we scan through the post, and comment. Damage control is a neat concept, but to Don and I, we feel that it just adds too much to a system that's meant for "quick and dirty." It would make for a great Naval-sim sort of campaign though, I think.
| Quote: | | With regards to the Communications , your commentary was essentially a paraphrasing of Fallon Kell's comment from the first page, while the topic itself recently hit page 12, and moved far beyond the basic details on the first page. At this point, it isn't much of a finished project that will really prove useful to other gamers; that will come later when Mikael starts compiling a variety of topics into a single tome that weaves together several threads he is working on. |
You have to remember that we record at a certain moment, and that a thread may progress past when we record. If we were to constantly keep up with a thread, we'd never finish a recording. I will start posting links to the threads on the blog so that any listener that is interested can read. Thanks for the input here.
| Quote: | | On the positive side, I enjoyed the discussion of Criminal Organizations, and the gamemastering tips to keep everyone involved. With regards to splitting the party, it may be a challenge, but it is worth noting that it is a very Star Wars thing to do. The finales of TPM, TESB and ROTJ all involved dividing the party and facing them with their own challenges and opponents, as well as skipping between scenes to keep people on their toes by ending the scene at a cliffhanger moment. I have also found that this is one of the few ways to allow parties that include Jedi to battle a Sith or Dark Jedi without the entire party piling in and overwhelming him; by giving the non-Jedi characters their own enemies to fight and their own missions to compete, it allows for the Jedi to face off in battle against his opponent without interference. After all, in the films, you never see a lightsaber fight interrupted by sniping blaster shots from the Jedi's teammates. |
From a GM's standpoint, splitting a party is still a nightmare. In my opinion, it takes herding cats, then splitting the herd, then herding two separate herds. Your idea is sound, and it gives me another impression. Jedi are attention grabbers at the table, and I mean this from a mechanics standpoint. There's the ton of dice they get, plus just as you typed, they need that mano-e-mano moment. You're giving us more things to talk about!
| Quote: | Also, an episode or two back you talked about the Force Attribute concept and how you would be coming back to it. The topic itself has gone dormant, but towards the end I did put together a summary rule for converting from the RAW to a Force Attribute. I won't claim to have achieved consensus on the matter, but nobody commented that they hated the idea (and sometimes that is as close to consensus as we get around here). Anyway, give it a look; it might be good fodder for the buffet.
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I'll search for that thread, but I personally feel that if there were a rule grafted into the system for a Force Attribute, that it should be done like D6 Space's Metaphysics system. Yes, this is definitely fodder for the Buffet.
Thank you for your comments. You're helping to shape this show into something more.
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Don Diestler
Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
http://d6holocron.com/shootingwomprats
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: |
You have to remember that we record at a certain moment, and that a thread may progress past when we record. If we were to constantly keep up with a thread, we'd never finish a recording. I will start posting links to the threads on the blog so that any listener that is interested can read. Thanks for the input here.
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If I could put my two cents in here, if I could kindly request that you follow your inclinations and DO NOT go back in future episodes to keep up with all the threads you see on all of the discussion outlets you guys cover.  At least for me, I know that I would not be interested in a show that just duplicates a forum. You give the most interesting topics a light treatment in your show, throw in your two cents, and even craft some house rules as a good shot at covering it. However, if the show was just a running commentary on the internet it would not only be taxing on you, but also on the listener.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2690
Location: Online
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: |
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That was always my intent. Pick the stuff that interests me, comment on it, add my spin if I have one. I for one as one of the producers do not wish to regurgitate stuff posted to forums.
Some times what happens is one of us will find a thread interesting and the other not so much. We get wires crossed on a topic for the script and what happens is one of us has not read the thread. Pretty much becomes a one-sided conversation with the obligatory, "we will have to look into this further and comment at a later time," to keep the flow of the show going without having to stop, go back read, re-shoot and edit the podcast.
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Host, Shooting Womp Rats
The D6 Podcast
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16259
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Damage control is a neat concept, but to Don and I, we feel that it just adds too much to a system that's meant for "quick and dirty." It would make for a great Naval-sim sort of campaign though, I think. |
Just to clarify, are you referring to the basic Damage Control rule I proposed on page 3 of the topic, or that in combination with the later discussion of crew casualties affecting difficulty levels for starship operations? With the basic rule, I felt that it was relatively simple; the character rolls the appropriate Tech skill at increased difficulty, then compares the result to a table to see how well the repair works.
| Quote: | | I will start posting links to the threads on the blog so that any listener that is interested can read. |
The logistics of organizing and producing a podcast are beyond my ken, but this seems a good idea. I was somewhat hesitant to suggest revisiting the Force Attribute concept because there is so much potential material out there to cover, and I second cheshire's opinion that coming back around to the same topics is a bad idea. I only brought it up because coming back around to it was something you mentioned in the original segment.
| Quote: | | I personally feel that if there were a rule grafted into the system for a Force Attribute, that it should be done like D6 Space's Metaphysics system. |
It does actually closely parallel the Metaphysics attribute, but is more condensed, with guidelines for converting existing templates and characters, as well as a few Star Wars-ish twists, like using Cyber Points as penalties to the Force Attribute (i.e. the more cybernetics you have, the weaker your connection to the Force becomes), as well as various Star Wars alien races that could potentially be naturally Force Sensitive...
Here's the link.
| Quote: | | Thank you for your comments. You're helping to shape this show into something more. |
Thanks for the props. I really like what you guys are doing with this and keep up the good work.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2269
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | On the positive side, I enjoyed the discussion of Criminal Organizations, and the gamemastering tips to keep everyone involved. With regards to splitting the party, it may be a challenge, but it is worth noting that it is a very Star Wars thing to do. The finales of TPM, TESB and ROTJ all involved dividing the party and facing them with their own challenges and opponents, as well as skipping between scenes to keep people on their toes by ending the scene at a cliffhanger moment. I have also found that this is one of the few ways to allow parties that include Jedi to battle a Sith or Dark Jedi without the entire party piling in and overwhelming him; by giving the non-Jedi characters their own enemies to fight and their own missions to compete, it allows for the Jedi to face off in battle against his opponent without interference. After all, in the films, you never see a lightsaber fight interrupted by sniping blaster shots from the Jedi's teammates. |
I know this is venturing into the realm of O/T, but I wanted to point out to crmcneill that he's given me some great 'food for thought' with this post. I'm considering concluding Episode III of our campaign with a return of the Dark Jedi/Inquisitor, and one challenge would be to keep him from getting ganged up on (as he sort of was in the first encounter).
I know it's often discouraged in RPGs, and I've tended to steer away from it myself (OTOH, the Cortex + game system gives a way for the GM to intentionally split the party). It's still something I'm going to consider doing for the climactic finale between our two Jedi and their dark counterpart.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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