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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: |
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That does sound like how it seems to be going.. giving 2 chances just in case the first failed.
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:00 am Post subject: |
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In the bujinkan dojos of kobudo one of the early white-belt lessons is referred to as "sensing intention" and involves pairing up the students, one faces away and closes his eyes in introspective meditation, the other stands a few feet behind him and when he feels it is appropriate, silently steps forward and does a slow punch to the back of the other guy's head, with no force, just the motion. So it will feel like a harmless rap on the back or your head with some knuckles, totally soft and safe.
The defender is told to simply meditate introspectively, and when he feels the time is right, take a casual step to the side.
Any white belt practises and accomplishes this basic kobudo skill. For 3rd dan it's done with a katana, live blade, but nevermind that.
Every student, with his eyes closed, meditating, steps to the side just as the 'aggressor' steps forward and moves his fist out. In combat arts as opposed to competitive martial arts sports, it's an elementary skill, utterly necessary to actually survive a knife fight in a back alley on a regular basis if you're getting into that kind of trouble and need kobudo for that.
Now, that works just like RAW for danger sense. |
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lurker
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Joined: 24 Oct 2012
Posts: 423
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That does sound like how it seems to be going.. giving 2 chances just in case the first failed. |
Yeah it is, but, like you and SWR, I don't like the feel of them having 2 chances. But also, I'm not sure I like them not having a chance to spend CPs to get a success, but then I don't like giving them a warning, but then ... and the rabbit just keeps running around in circles in my head …
The principle works for me in C&C AD&D etc where the roll is the roll and there is no way a character can improve it. But with d6's CPs being spent to improve roll the water gets muddy.
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| lurker wrote: | | ATG I like the idea of that. My 1 question, what about a player wanting to use CPs to increase the roll? |
Fortunately the RPG in question had something similar to CPs (Hero Points) that the players could spend to augment rolls.
The general rule was that a player could spend points in advance on a roll. For example, telling the GM that he wants to spend 2 points on his next PER roll.
The way it worked is that the GM applied the points, but still kept the roll secret. It was a bit risky, since if the player rolled really good, or if the next secret roll turned out to be something minor, they player essentially wasted the points. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="garhkal"] | lurker wrote: |
So they could get 2 chances to 'sense something wrong'. The DM's hidden one and the one they activate. |
Nope. That was the thing about "Sixth Sense", the players had no control over it. If the players wanted to try and spot something they could make PER rolls. "Sixth Sense"/Danger Sense wasn't something they could consciously control or activate.
The net effect was that the ability was incredible useful (a real lifesaver), but the players could never get that overconfident about it. And since the rolls were done in secret, the players didn't get "tipped off" that something was up they way they do when the GM asked them to make PER rolls out of the blue. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| lurker wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | That does sound like how it seems to be going.. giving 2 chances just in case the first failed. |
Yeah it is, but, like you and SWR, I don't like the feel of them having 2 chances. But also, I'm not sure I like them not having a chance to spend CPs to get a success, but then I don't like giving them a warning, but then ... and the rabbit just keeps running around in circles in my head …
The principle works for me in C&C AD&D etc where the roll is the roll and there is no way a character can improve it. But with d6's CPs being spent to improve roll the water gets muddy. |
Then keep it as is, where if they WISH to have that sixth sense ability they have to activate danger sense and keep it up.
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lurker
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Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
...
The general rule was that a player could spend points in advance on a roll. For example, telling the GM that he wants to spend 2 points on his next PER roll.
The way it worked is that the GM applied the points, but still kept the roll secret. It was a bit risky, since if the player rolled really good, or if the next secret roll turned out to be something minor, they player essentially wasted the points. |
I like that idea, it give the player a chance to improve the roll with out letting the cat out of the bag by letting them know the dice had been tossed.
I could even see it being a 'what is your max bid' to get a successful DS roll kind of tool. If the roll is a success, no need to take the CP that the player said he would use, if it is a fail, but close use the 1 to 2 CPs the player bid and they get the success. If the roll was a "Harris" then they blow their CPs but still come up short for the success and are out bid by fate ...
Yeah I like that a lot better than my idea. It takes care of the double jeopardy issue but gives the player a chance to improve the roll.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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That's pretty close to how I do it. Rather than have rolls made in secret, though, I often will just ask for a PER roll from everyone in a scene (not even telling them what it's for). They know that sometimes it's just to notice something pretty ordinary, and not particularly relevant or special. But it might end up being for something like an ambush! More often than not, they won't burn CP in situations like this, but they always have the option.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| lurker wrote: | If the roll was a "Harris" then they blow their CPs but still come up short for the success and are out bid by fate ...
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That is where many players i know will have issues with it. Some are fine with being called to make 'random rolls' that have little to know meaning 'just to keep the suspense up', but will balk at having them cost something when the roll they are spending CP to boost has none.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | lurker wrote: | If the roll was a "Harris" then they blow their CPs but still come up short for the success and are out bid by fate ...
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That is where many players i know will have issues with it. Some are fine with being called to make 'random rolls' that have little to know meaning 'just to keep the suspense up', but will balk at having them cost something when the roll they are spending CP to boost has none. |
That's the advantage opf having the GM roll it in secret. No ,ystery rolls for the players, and no need to waste CP on an unknown.
But, one of the reason why this worked so well in the other RPG was that spending points to adjust rolls just bumped up the success level rather than adding dice. So spending a point was always going to give you something. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| lurker wrote: |
I like that idea, it give the player a chance to improve the roll with out letting the cat out of the bag by letting them know the dice had been tossed. |
It worked very well in play. Since players could "look for something" and get a PER roll, and Sizth Sense was entirely out of thier hands. it gave the characters a chance to spot stuff that they either missed with PER rolls or just didn't have a chance to spot.
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I could even see it being a 'what is your max bid' to get a successful DS roll kind of tool. If the roll is a success, no need to take the CP that the player said he would use, if it is a fail, but close use the 1 to 2 CPs the player bid and they get the success. If the roll was a "Harris" then they blow their CPs but still come up short for the success and are out bid by fate ... |
Well, the RPG I got this from used a somewhat different game mechanic than D6. When you spent points to improve a roll, you bumped up the success level. It would be like bumping the result on Damage vs. STR damage table a step. So there was always some effect for spending points.
The big concern wasn't so much throwing points away on an unsuccessful roll (that couldn't happen), but instead throwing points away on a successful one. That is the GM rolled very well, and the PC would have spotted it without the points.
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Yeah I like that a lot better than my idea. It takes care of the double jeopardy issue but gives the player a chance to improve the roll. |
It works very well in that other RPG. It gives the character a chance to spot stuff, and works as a kinda safety net, yet isn't perfect, so the players don't get overconfident.
And the marginal rolls can drive the players crazy. They know something is wrong, but can't figure out just what. Yeah, they will eventually figure it out, but will they do so in time to do them any good? |
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Ral_Brelt
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 May 2013
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| A possible solution would be to have the players allocate a pool of up to 6 cp for the purpose of trying to pass rolls. The GM does his per rolling and notes what the rolls are for. On GM faith, cp could be spent following standard roll rules to try and make a check pass. The GM tracks those cp and re-awards them at session end. |
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