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cheshire Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Posts: 4853
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Depending on what sort of penetration you're looking at, you just want to qualify that very carefully in the "Game Notes" section. I would hate to give someone with a bow the ability to do a standard 2D Walker scale damage. It seems unbalanced to let a character just vaporize targets with a silent weapon. IIRC many modern weapons that operate on small scale, but armor punching rounds (such as some depleted uranium rounds) hope to punch through the armor and the heat of the friction and the natural pyrophonic nature of the round do the damage to the personnel. An affect that wouldn't take place if it hit... say... an elephant.
If you're looking for armor piercing in terms of character armor, I would stat things much differently than I would for vehicle armor. The latter would be more expensive, more rare, and potentially have other side-effects. I.E., I wouldn't put those depleted uranium rounds in your front pocket for six weeks. 'cause.... ya know... you're gonna have a really bad time. _________________ __________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:10 am Post subject: |
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LOL, yeah, I bet. IMO, the best way to balance out such a powerful weapon would be to make it expensive, rare and illegal. It's one thing to have a really nice bow with some special trick arrows when you are going through Customs, but trying to sneak a proton-warhead arrow will be a lot harder to explain if you get caught. A lot of what I'm proposing at this point (as far as custom arrows) is just ideas for potential use far down the road if this gaming session turns into a campaign. Plus, my friend's daughter will be playing her first D6 game using this weapon, and I want her to be excited about the possibilities. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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cheshire Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Posts: 4853
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: |
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And the occasional "tank buster" munition is something that you can selectively plant in the campaign for specific uses. More or less like a James Bond kind of toy. Bond always has some gadget that has one or two specific uses in the story he's in, and planting a consumable device in an adventure to be used in the near future satisfies that sort of satisfying effect. However, if the players have an entire starship full of bond gadgets it looses some of the challenge and thrill of figuring out how to use them to maximum effect without unbalancing the game. Also, given the fact that the character will not be able to carry six billion arrows in a quiver means they'll have to be a bit choosy about what they put into their bag. Kind of like having a club limit in golf _________________ __________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. It's the hidden downside to having a weapon with limited ammunition where ammunition can be chosen for specific effects; how do you choose the right effect? It's a similar quandary faced by D&D wizards making their daily spell selections.
Another fun high-tech idea from the Avengers film would be Hawkeye's smart quiver, allowing the archer to use voice commands to match up an arrow with a warhead for a desired effect... _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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I converted the 40K Vindicare Assassins to SW (souped up storm commandos with survival & sniper training). This included the Exitus rifle which really is a ott-sniper rifle with multiple operation modes (stealth (added by me), anti-personell, anti-vehicle and anti-forcefield).
As there is always a risk of this falling into the PCs hand one has to consider drawbacks. In this case size of weapon, illegal as hell, and rather hard to come by ammunition... Also, rather unpractical in close combat..
Id say that one drawback of the bow could be Rate of Fire... Drawing arrows from quivers, drawing the bow and releasing it should be two actions, automatically lowering risk of having a too destructive weapon with 'super arrows'..
_________________ My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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ZzaphodD wrote: | I converted the 40K Vindicare Assassins to SW (souped up storm commandos with survival & sniper training). This included the Exitus rifle which really is a ott-sniper rifle with multiple operation modes (stealth (added by me), anti-personell, anti-vehicle and anti-forcefield). |
There is also the potential that a weapon like the Exitus will have a palm reader or some sort of coding system that causes it to self destruct if anyone other than the assassin tries to use it. What are your rules for the various shell types? I'm always looking to expand my possible ammo list, both for here and for my bolter rules.
I love the inclusion of Warhammer Assassins, even if they can be majorly unbalancing. I especially like the idea of Culexus Assassins as anti-Jedi weapons. Do you just include the four basic temples, or have you also included the Vanus and Venenum temples from the Nemesis novel?
Quote: | Id say that one drawback of the bow could be Rate of Fire... Drawing arrows from quivers, drawing the bow and releasing it should be two actions, automatically lowering risk of having a too destructive weapon with 'super arrows'. |
That works. In fact, if you are carrying multiple arrow-types it might take even more actions, since you would need to know exactly which arrow you are pulling out of your quiver. In that situation, a voice-controlled auto-quiver (as suggested above), would actually be a major assist in rapid-firing of arrows.
EDIT: Of course, modern bows also have bow-mounted quivers that hold 6-8 arrows, so an archer could pre-load his bow-quiver with some 'ready" rounds and leave the quiver for the specialized stuff. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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If I recall there are some in the SW universe that are 'outside' the force... This discussion was also up long ago.
The idea was that the Empire somehow either had managed to generate this ability with some kind of produced mutation, or that the inquisition looked for these individuals as children and kidnapped them for the assassins. _________________ My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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ZzaphodD wrote: | If I recall there are some in the SW universe that are 'outside' the force... This discussion was also up long ago.
The idea was that the Empire somehow either had managed to generate this ability with some kind of produced mutation, or that the inquisition looked for these individuals as children and kidnapped them for the assassins. |
In the new campaign I'm starting, I'm allowing characters to use the D6 Space Advantage/Disadvantage system to flesh out their character's backgrounds. Part of that system is a Special Ability section, which seems like a good fit with something like this, where at one level of Special Ability, a character is simply Force Blind, at the next they are not present in the Force, at the next they actively dampen the Force (ala ysalamiri). IMO, based on their descriptions, a Culexus would have a more potent and terrifying effect than even a ysalamiri would.
Have you read Nemesis at all? Awesome Imperial Assassins story in the Horus Heresy era. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Esoomian High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone played Resident Evil Four, particularly the Mercenaries section?
I'd be tempted to treat a Sci-Fi bow and arrow situation like a RPG launcher in the same way that Krauser's battle bow was essentially an RPG launcher.
I tend to agree that while technology may have advanced a lot of technology will fall by the wayside as well (to use a modern example swords made with modern technology and metallurgy don't tend to be much more impressive than medieval swords). While I can't imagine a lot of technology will be easily adapted to making a better bow I'm sure there will be advances in the field of explosives that will make arrowheads with significant blast/damage potential. After all Star Wars does have the thermal detonator. _________________ Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.
Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Esoomian wrote: | I tend to agree that while technology may have advanced a lot of technology will fall by the wayside as well (to use a modern example swords made with modern technology and metallurgy don't tend to be much more impressive than medieval swords). While I can't imagine a lot of technology will be easily adapted to making a better bow I'm sure there will be advances in the field of explosives that will make arrowheads with significant blast/damage potential. After all Star Wars does have the thermal detonator. |
I agree. Bow technology can only be refined so far, apart from things like advanced composite materials and the power-assist option I suggested. But arrowhead design is only limited by the current developmental state of modern weapons. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Esoomian High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 6207 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | Esoomian wrote: | I tend to agree that while technology may have advanced a lot of technology will fall by the wayside as well (to use a modern example swords made with modern technology and metallurgy don't tend to be much more impressive than medieval swords). While I can't imagine a lot of technology will be easily adapted to making a better bow I'm sure there will be advances in the field of explosives that will make arrowheads with significant blast/damage potential. After all Star Wars does have the thermal detonator. |
I agree. Bow technology can only be refined so far, apart from things like advanced composite materials and the power-assist option I suggested. But arrowhead design is only limited by the current developmental state of modern weapons. |
Sure but even then all you're going to get is a different flavour of grenade launcher. I'd start with the stats for a grenade launcher and then drop the rate of fire and the range. _________________ Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.
Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Esoomian wrote: | Sure but even then all you're going to get is a different flavour of grenade launcher. I'd start with the stats for a grenade launcher and then drop the rate of fire and the range. |
But a grenade launcher won't have the same stats because it doesn't fire the same way. Rules for a bow need to reflect how bows operate in real life, and simply subbing in a grenade launcher's stats will not suffice if you want accuracy.
Besides, the kid I'm writing this up for is already an archer in real life. She's not going to settle for me giving her character a bow that is just a grenade launcher under a different name. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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vanir Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011 Posts: 793
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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??
Sorosuub KT-1 Magnacast composite bow
Skill: bows
Fire control: 1D
Rate of Fire: 2
Range: 5-25/70/300*
Damage: 5D/4D/3D**
* cannot be used effectively at ranges closer than 5 metres
** inherent damage using standard graphite arrows, modified by arrowhead type
Notes: this composite bow uses miniaturised technology within the pulley system to provide a stronger release force than the pull strength required to draw the string, which is minimal. It is equipped with a sensors based targeting fire control suite with image enhancement and magnification, providing a bonus to the caster skill. Optional upgrades include night vision and motion tracking to further increase bonuses under specific conditions.
The standard graphite arrows are fitted with multiple, barbed hyperalloy blades which generate the listed damage. Specialised arrows are available but can be expensive:
Armour piercing razor repulsorheads, ignore up to 2D of character scale hard armour (eg. 2D+2 physical armour provides only 2pips protection, or 1D physical armour is ignored and character takes full normal damage).
Explosive rod and flachette warheads, +1D vs soft targets, blast radius 1-2/3/5 (5D/3D/2D).
Anti-vehicle shaped charge, speeder scale damage 3D/2D+2/2D
?? |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Why just 2? Why not just apply MAPs? If drawing an arrow from a quiver and fitting it to the bow is one action, and pulling the string and firing is another, just apply MAPs as normal and let characters who have insanely high Bow skills fire off as many shots as they can.
Quote: | Range: 5-25/70/300*
* cannot be used effectively at ranges closer than 5 metres |
It would be more accurate to apply a penalty to fire at point-blank range, since it's just more difficult, not impossible.
Quote: | Damage: 5D/4D/3D**
** inherent damage using standard graphite arrows, modified by arrowhead type |
I wouldn't call them graphite. This is sci-fi, after all; arrows may use some new, better material, or they may still use graphite. Better to leave it to the imagination.
Quote: | Armour piercing razor repulsorheads, ignore up to 2D of character scale hard armour (eg. 2D+2 physical armour provides only 2pips protection, or 1D physical armour is ignored and character takes full normal damage).
Explosive rod and flachette warheads, +1D vs soft targets, blast radius 1-2/3/5 (5D/3D/2D).
Anti-vehicle shaped charge, speeder scale damage 3D/2D+2/2D |
Good stuff here. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Law Ensign
Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Posts: 25 Location: Baltimore, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: |
Quote: | Range: 5-25/70/300*
* cannot be used effectively at ranges closer than 5 metres |
It would be more accurate to apply a penalty to fire at point-blank range, since it's just more difficult, not impossible. |
I am no archery expert, but I believe firing inside "minimum range" would reduce the force and resulting damage of the shot as well. Something to consider. |
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