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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | On the other hand, if I follow crmcneil's suggestion to allow 1 FP to affect a Force Power regardless of how many skills it uses, that may be too powerful. What is the best way to treat multi-skill powers and how best to cost the F usage? |
I thought I suggested that a Force User could spend multiple FPs in a round, but only on a Force Power that required multiple skill rolls, and that multiple FPs used in a round were subject to the same rules of losing/gaining back as a single FP. |
You did, but I think that was after you suggested 1 FP to affect a single power no matter how many skills are involved. I am struggling to get something that matches up with the super CP concept of a Force Point a la Xena and Hercules that I posted earlier today but that does not force a Jedi to spend too many FPs just to be able to use LS Combat or persuade someone that "these aren't the droids you're looking for." 
So far my best idea is 1 FP per force skill. I guess for LS Combat we could allow that to effect both attacks and parries. That will also work with my modified dice pool version of LS combat. It will just involve tweaking the definition for the new FP use to allow it to affect powers a bit differently than skills, i.e. for LS combat you spend FP per skill, so 1 FP for control and 1 FP for sense, but LS combat affects attacks, parries, blocks, etc. whereas for the lightsaber skill you must specify whether the FP is affecting attack or parry.
Question: If the Jedi spends a FP to affect his Sense for the round, should that only apply to a single Force Power use for a single round, or should it apply to any and all Force Powers (using Sense) for that entire round? |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I am contemplating switching to modified rule for FPs. This will also slightly effect the usage of CPs.
Force Points
A force point (FP) affects one skill or attribute for one round. It can be declared at any time prior to rolling the dice. One FP only affects either attack or defense rolls, not both. So a single force point spent to increase the lightsaber skill can only increase either lightsaber attack or lightsaber parry, but not both. One FP affects all similar uses of a specific skill for that round, so if a FP is used to affect lightsaber attack, it affects all lightsaber attacks for that round. More than one FP can be used in a round, for example a character with at least two force points could use one FP for attack and another FP for parry.
Character Points
After the dice are rolled, but before the result is determined. A character point (CP) may be spent to increase any skill or attribute roll. The only exception is that if a FP has been used for that skill or attribute roll, then a CP may not be used on that same skill or attribute use in that same round. However CPs may be used for any other skill or attribute rolls in that same round.
Where I Need Help
However, I am encountering some difficulty in figuring out how to treat using FP to affect Force Powers.
(1) I'm not sure how to elegantly manage a power like LS Combat which effects lightsaber attack and parry as well as LS damage in line with use of a FP only affecting attack or parry. In other words how do I reconcile the power with the FP usage above?
(2) On the one hand, I am concerned that the FP usage becomes prohibitively costly for Jedi, for example: if LS combat takes 1 FP to double Control and a 2nd FP to double Sense and even then it only counts for offense, taking another 2 FPs to double both for defense. On the other hand, if I follow crmcneil's suggestion to allow 1 FP to affect a Force Power regardless of how many skills it uses, that may be too powerful. What is the best way to treat multi-skill powers and how best to cost the F usage?
I'm hoping one of you folks can formulate a solution that I am just not seeing. |
Other than the 'can spend cp/fp in the same round stuff, not bad.
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Other than the 'can spend cp/fp in the same round stuff, not bad. |
Thanks.  I think it is necessary since 1 FP only affects one skill and as we already know, I am trying make it easier (not harder) for the PCs to survive, without making it a guarantee.
I wonder if the ability (and sometimes the need) to spend more than one FP in the same round will require that non-force sensitive characters be allowed to accumulate more than 5 FPs. |
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Other than the 'can spend cp/fp in the same round stuff, not bad. |
Thanks. I think it is necessary since 1 FP only affects one skill and as we already know, I am trying make it easier (not harder) for the PCs to survive, without making it a guarantee.
I wonder if the ability (and sometimes the need) to spend more than one FP in the same round will require that non-force sensitive characters be allowed to accumulate more than 5 FPs. |
I always liked the 3 CP my FP's turned into, and would be sad if the cap went up, especially since the power of the FP I was now stuck with went down.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:14 am Post subject: |
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So have i./ Heck one gaming session, i remember my pc burnt through all 5 FP he had earned and did a lot more heroics and other things that would have made the 'clip reel' if it was a film.. The gm gave me back all 5, and 8 bonus for my outstanding heroics... so since i was capped at 5, those 8 got converted into CP..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | So far my best idea is 1 FP per force skill. |
So, by one force skill, do you mean Control, Sense or Alter, or do you mean specific abilities like Lightsaber Combat or Affect Mind? I just want to clarify before I respond...
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | So far my best idea is 1 FP per force skill. |
So, by one force skill, do you mean Control, Sense or Alter, or do you mean specific abilities like Lightsaber Combat or Affect Mind? I just want to clarify before I respond... |
Both. So to take LS combat as an example. It uses 2 force skills: control and sense. 1 FP doubles one of the two skills a second FP doubles the other. But in either case, the doubling affects both the adds for attacking and defending.
In contrast, adding a FP to the lightsaber combat power the player must choose whether he is doubling the lightsaber attack portion of the power or the lightsaber parry portion of the power.
To summarize, it would take 2 FPs to double lightsaber combat (both control and sense) and it would take 2 FP to double the lightsaber skill (or a melee attack and parry skill).
Since you are using a Dueling Blades variant using the same skill for both attack and defense, you would be better off doubling the lightsaber skill rather than the lightsaber combat power.
If that makes sense, then you are free to agree or disagree. |
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JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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An idea I recently had for Force Points was to double ONLY the Attributes.
So Bob has Dex 3D, Blaster 5D, Dodge of 4D. He uses a Force Point. For one round only he has a Dex of 6D (3Dx2), Blaster of 8D (5D+3D), Dodge of 7D (4D+3D).
So whatever their Attribute is they get to add that to all their skills. It makes a Force Point way bigger of a deal then Character Points, but only adds [on average] 3D to all the PCs rolls.
It doesn't completely destroy the game, and (because its based on Attributes), that ~3D bonus isn't going to change much and get out of control as the PCs advance their skills.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | An idea I recently had for Force Points was to double ONLY the Attributes.
So Bob has Dex 3D, Blaster 5D, Dodge of 4D. He uses a Force Point. For one round only he has a Dex of 6D (3Dx2), Blaster of 8D (5D+3D), Dodge of 7D (4D+3D).
So whatever their Attribute is they get to add that to all their skills. It makes a Force Point way bigger of a deal then Character Points, but only adds [on average] 3D to all the PCs rolls.
It doesn't completely destroy the game, and (because its based on Attributes), that ~3D bonus isn't going to change much and get out of control as the PCs advance their skills. |
Interesting. Based on the initial read, I like the idea. Of course, by knocking the Force Point bonus down that far, it might be necessary to eliminate the rule barring the use of FPs and CPs in the same round; with a bonus that low, a character might need a soak roll to save their lives.
Another option that I posited a while back would also be a good fit; take the Force Power Reduce Injury and make it a option for any character with a Force Point (specifically, if you take lethal damage, you can spend a FP and survive, at the cost of some form of permanent injury).
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Law
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Joined: 15 Jul 2011
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I had been allowing a FP to affect only a single roll in my campaign, not wanting it to get out of hand and (specifically) ruin climactic fights or set pieces. I think that it has cheapened the FP somewhat though, so I am probably going to say that in addition to the single roll being doubled, all other rolls during the round gain a bonus CP die.
We are playing a Dark Times campaign leading up to the Rebellion Era and I have about 3 Force Sensitives in the game. None have Force skills above 3D at this point. Most even have skills at 5D or less with the exception of a pilot (Space Transp 6D+2 I believe) and Gunslinger (Blaster 7D).
Just my two cents. |
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JT Swift
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yes, my rule should definitely allow Character Points to be used as well.
I'm trying to put together a list of 3-4 DIFFERENT things that Force Points can be used for. So that players have more options [and have to think harder] about how they use them.
Currently I’m liking…
* 1 Force Point doubles your ATTRIBUTES for one turn. So you effectively get to add your attributes to your skills.
* 1 Force Point lets you automatically succeed at one action (but opponents can spend a FP to cancel it if they are making a counter action like dodge).
* 1 Force Point can be used to turn a single hit on yourself into a miss.
* 1 Force Point can also be used to turn any Dead damage result into an Incapacitate. (this could become your Reduce Injury rule)
Also on this topic: New Force Points are awarded for doing amazingly heroic and risky things during a dramatically appropriate moment. But you do NOT need to spend a FP point while doing the risky thing. (cuz, in truth, its even more exciting if you don’t have a Force Point bonus!)
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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So would DSPs still be treated as FPs when you spend them?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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JT Swift
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't follow you. I didn't know you could Spend Dark Side Points on anything. I thought they stayed with you till you atoned?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | | I don't follow you. I didn't know you could Spend Dark Side Points on anything. I thought they stayed with you till you atoned? |
My bad. I was confusing a house rule with the RAW for a second.
The nature of Dark Side Points and Force Points allows you to both spend a FP and then call on the Dark Side for another one, doubling down on your roll, so to speak. Under the RAW, there is no restriction on a Dark Side character also calling on the Dark Side and doubling down on his reaction roll if this is done in combat or any other kind of opposed roll.
Under the house rule I use, when both opponents in a battle attempt to call on the Dark Side, only the character with the fewest DSPs may do so. This reflects the fickle nature of the Dark Side, as well as the preference of darkness for the corruption of innocence.
The question I was asking was whether or not, when "doubling down" on the Dark Side, is it treated the same as your above description of FPs, or would it require something unique?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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My only problem with FPs is that they can be used to insta-kick the bad guys @ss when the PCs encounter them..
An earlier GM kept close track on our number of FP:s and 'drawed' them out during the game before the 'dramatic climax'... I assume to prevent the insta-kick.. I dont really want to do the same thing..
Can one limit FPs to more defensive actions? This would of course go against the Lukes Torpedo precedent..
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