Hyperspace jump ???

[lurker]

Ok, I’m stuck on a very newbe question.

Hyperspace jumps, are they straight line ‘jumps’ from point a to e skipping b c & d, or are they winding movements going from point a to be to c etc and then dropping out at the desired location.

I originally thought they would be the later, but reading through the posts on tracking through hyperspace I got a bit unsure on how it works … I can see the importance of being on the proper vector if the jump is straight line, but if is a winding affair through hyperspace then what does the starting vector matter … For example, a ship plots a course and to be tricky adds a 1 parsec leg on their starting vector, and then dog legs onto the actual route they are taking to the final destination. If that’s the case the IMP frigate chasing them would jump following their vector, plan an end point on the general direction of the vector and completely miss the running ship.

Also, a related question (but one I’ve never had a clue on) the astrogaiton routs. I realize they are mapped out routs (I picture them like highways through space). Now my question is on going from a point ‘off the beaten path’ or on a minor route onto the main routes. Do you have to jump from a back water world to a start point (or a point on the route between systems), come out of hyperspace. Then make another jump along the secondary route toward a major route, come out of hyperspace. Make a jump along the main rout, etc etc etc. Or, is it plot a route that passes along the all the points without the repeated in and outs of hyperspace?

The first one seems like a ‘pain’ but to me it is a bit more realistic (as realistic as anything in SW is anyway) plus it gives the IMP (well any form of galaxy government be it IMP, Republic, or even Sith) a way to monitor and police the routs. That of course would make using the secondary and tertiary routes more important (though slower) for smugglers, rebels etc.

Ok, sorry about having a question on such a basic subject …
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

[garhkal]

Due to gravity bodies beng all over the place, they would have to be Somewhat curved.. BUT still in a relitively straight line.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[CRMcNeill]

Perhaps there the straightness of hyperspace routes are related to how well traveled they are. The major trade routes could be relatively straight, allowing for easier nav calculations and higher transit speeds, like a highway or interstate network, with state and local routes being analogous to the smaller, local hyperspace routes that are less traveled.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[ZzaphodD]

[ZzaphodD]

[vanir]

1. First, for an accurate canonical map of the galaxy and its hyperspace routes the Star Wars Essential Atlas really is essential for RPGers.
It doesn't give calculation times being a LucasArts independent project but it is the best framework bar none to apply the WEG RAW for astrogation to and has the galactic coordinates system used by wookieepedia for locations, it's the canonical map. I got a new copy on Amazon, easy enough.

2. Next, the complexity of the route plotted relates to the difficulty of the astrogation. It can be a short "straight line" jump or a complex, weaving course using several local routes and a major trade highway. It depends how complicated a course the navigator plots, anything from a 12 base (natural) difficulty to a 38, modified.
Just a tip, if you're going to try navigating the Deep Core, stick to short, "straight line" jumps (and take lots of readings).

Insofar as tracking hyperspace routes goes, this is a probability function using supercomputers and finite star maps, and highly trained technical personnel. If Tattooine and Ryloth are the only habitable worlds, in fact the only terrestrial locations period, in a particular direction from a starting point, and both an Imperial and a Rebel ship are at the starting point, the Rebel ship jumps to hyperspace, the Imperial ship monitors its mass-shadow within a few star-systems range and catches the general/average direction, so long as they're not too far behind and force the fleeing Rebels to stay in hyperspace to keep ahead of them, there's only a couple of systems they could be headed to.

Keep in mind tracking a ship entering hyperspace also involves calculating probability based upon the amount of time that ship was crunching numbers for the jump and how much power they were radiating doing it, if it spent ten minutes in-system with a heat-flaring shipcomputer before jumping they could be going anywhere in the galaxy on a very complicated course, if they only spent one minute and barely registered a blip on the sensors from their shipcomputer then they're going somewhere pretty direct and fairly local.
In this example, since rimward speaking Tattooine is on the way to Ryloth and both are on a nice stable major trade route, it'd take only minimum time and difficulty to plot and jump to either, and you might as well stop quickly at Tattooine and run a scan before heading off to Ryloth if you were chasing fleeing Rebels.
And even if you're slightly behind them, they'd still be plotting quick jumps escaping and you can track their emissions and crunch numbers for likely destinations with a pretty high probability for success given Imperial fleet resources and a quarry which is desperate, cornered and on the run.

Believe me in our campaign the players have learned not to relax too much just by jumping into hyperspace when Imperials show up. Generally it means at your destination, unless you've serious skills, comprehensive (quest achieved) star charts including local area charts and underground "back door" routes, and a very fast ship; you simply wind up with even more Imperials there to intercept you than the system you just left. Imperial star charts by the way and very comprehensive, PC parties on the other hand only start with major, universal trade routes and have to adventure and ask around for more.
They learned to play it safe and smart around big Imperial cruisers and not act like cowboys...unless, you know it's a climactic point in the adventure.

3. Third, you can jump from route to route on a single plotted hyperspace course, but it escalates the difficulties and quickly becomes prohibitive, although it is much quicker than plotting a "blind path" spanning the galaxy, which you can also do but would take months or years of travel time for the one jump performed at any achievable difficulty level.

Trade routes firstly and foremost cut travel times over long distances. It normally takes days to weeks to cross a few sectors but using the Corellian Run it takes hours. Problem for people like Rebels of course is Imperials monitor and patrol the major trade routes.
There are "back door" trade highways like the Triellus Trade Run which spans the entire galactic slice perpendicularly, running along the rimward side of HuttSpace between the Perlemian around Centares and the Correlian Run at Arkanis sector (Tattooine/Geonosis), and continues past all the spice smuggling local routes and shadow ports like Vergasso to Darkknell on the Hydian Way near the Rimma junction and Sullust.
The Triellus can have you from the northern galaxy to the southern outer rim within days, which if you're running from Imperials from say, Anaxes in the Core, zip up the Perlemian with them hot on your tail, then down the Triellus, they won't be looking down near Sullust for you for weeks or months, even if you were Luke and Leia themselves.

So let's look at some difficulties. I'm at Vergasso shadow port and I just got really drunk so want to go to Anaxes and write "Vader is a big honky" on a wall outside the Imperial Naval Academy.
I'm at a Shadow Port and did some asking around and a few local adventures, used my streetwise and actually have very good local charts logged in my astrogation computer (noted and listed on the ship's game sheet). I have the Five Veils Route and the Triellus Trade Run in their entireties, plus the Llanic Spice Run (backdoor). These routes are all outlined in the Essential Atlas. I have the major routes as all navcomputers do, the Corellian Run, the Hydian Way, the Rimma Trade Route, the Corellian Trade Spine and the Perlemian Trade Route. These are the major highways but are all commonly monitored and patrolled, and are lined with the HoloNet beacons.
I'm in the Outer Rim, southern galactic arm among what they call the Trailing Sectors. Where I need to go is in the Core Worlds at the border of the Northern Dependencies and Inner Core Worlds, just near Coruscant and among the Imperial Fortress Worlds. Suicidal I know but I believe I may be able to distract them by being completely insane.

Okay so first thing I do is look for the best major trade route that spans most of the physical distance I need to travel. The two best choices are the Corellian Run from Arkanis to Coruscant, and the Hydian Way from Darkknell to Brentaal.

Now I need to find some routes from my starting point at Vergasso to whichever one I take. I can take the Five Veils to Triellus which connects both, but I pass an Imperial listening post at Farstine. I want to avoid that because of what I'm planning and I don't want my transponder being logged recently by any Imperial stations. It'll bring attention down on Vergasso and I won't be welcome there anymore.
So I'll find another way to link up with the Triellus, using my streetwise local charts I can go the other direction past Elshandru Pica and cut across to the Llanic Spice Run which few know and keeps my travel time down to a few hours.
Now I could plot a cold course myself without using these local routes, but I'd be crossing a couple of Sectors doing it and that would bump my travel time to days rather than hours. That's a big bump.
Having comprehensive and local charts rocks, it's better than having a x1/2 hyperdrive (people like Han Solo had both, hence were uncatchable in hyperspace).

I'm still in the course plotting stage, and haven't left yet. This is what astrogators spend that minute or more actually doing on the navcomputer in RP terms whilst the Player makes a roll before a jump.
So I'm going to cut from Vergasso along the Five Veils over to Llanic and then follow the Triellus to either the Corellian Run at Arkanis or the Hydian Way at Darkknell.
Which is better? Well the Corellian Run will take me past Coruscant, I'll definitely get pulled down from hyperspace there and probably hit with customs inspections and a fine tooth comb, it's the Imperial capital.
The Hydian on the other hand takes me to Brentaal which is an extremely powerful Core World controlled by Trade Barons loyal to Coruscant, but not directly controlled by the Imperial military. Brentaal is also very heavily populated and one of the highest traffic areas in the entire galaxy, it sits right on the intersection of the Hydian and Perlemian. Being just a small transport vessel I'm pretty sure I'll pass relatively unnoticed unless I actually shoot at something or depart the marked spacelanes and ignore traffic controllers. I will however definitely get pulled from Hyperspace at Brentaal so local stations can control coreward and heavy trade space traffic without having collisions or gridlocks.

Therefore my astrogation course is so far: Start-Vergasso -> Five Veils Route -> Llanic Spice Run -> Triellus Trade Route to Darkknell -> Hydian Way to Brentaal *will be pulled to subspace by traffic control at Brentaal*
I will have to plot another course from Brentaal to Anaxes Fortress World and the Imperial Naval Academy, but it's only a short, direct jump (followed by internment to an Imperial prison world).

Now what I do as GM is trace the path of the Hydian from Darkknell to Brentaal and just check if any predetermined obstacles are in the way. These would be things like a major Imperial world right on the path which would invariably pull any passing ships from hyperspace for customs, ie. any areas of Imperial Interdicted Space along the Hydian Way across that length I'm using. It does sometimes happen, if I was going along the Perlemian coreward past Brentaal for example, I wouldn't actually get pulled down at Brentaal since I'm continuing coreward along the same route, but I'd get interdicted at Anaxes because it's right in my path and a Fortress World in Interdicted Space.
But along the Hydian section I'm using there's nothing like that, it's a clear run until Brentaal.

Next what I do is check for any gaps between my jigsaw of connected routes/charts for the total journey. As it so happens there is a gap between the Five Veils and Llanic Spice Run, I have to cross a bit of open space in the direction of Skynar.
Now I can either plot that little section myself as an astrogator using the shipboard computer or I can try to ask around Vergasso Shadow Port canteenas and suchlike, using my streetwise contacts to try to find a local route connecting the two. As it so happens there is a local route from Elshandru Pica to Skynar passing right by Llanic's Spice Terminus, the Skynar Run but I don't know it.
In any case, because it's such a short jump from Five Veils to Llanic Spice Run, I'm going to plot the course myself. It'll only add several hours to my overall journey, around half a day. Had I the local chart it would add only about two hours for no cost in difficulty.

Okay now my total course plotted goes: Vergasso/Five Veils (starting point) -> personal plotted course to Bahalian/Llanic Spice Run (1d6+8hrs) -> Triellus Trade Route (1d6hrs) -> Darkknell/Hydian Way (6d6-5 hrs) -> Brentaal/Hydian Way (1d6 days + 5d6-5hrs)

Then I will be pulled down at Brentaal because I want to switch to the Perlemian Route for Anaxes, and Brentaal is a major trade nexus with traffic controllers.

It is therefore a single journey from Vergasso to Brentaal, but overall it's a complicated course that would be quite difficult to plot. As GM I'm going to rate it overall a 27 base difficulty due to the number of course changes and an uncharted section, although it does stick to established, well travelled routes wherever possible. There are few tricky regions to navigate along my route once I get to Darkknell but I added a few points to get to that point.
After making all the travel time rolls I totalled 5 days and 18 hours for the journey at a x1 hyperdrive, from the time I enter hyperspace near Vergasso in the Outer Rim to the time I get pulled down by traffic beacons at Brentaal in the Core Worlds. I could add another twelve hours to bring the difficulty back to a standard astrogation Moderate.
As it so happens my Hyperdrive is a modified Class 2 that moves the ship at x1 with a +2 mishap modifier.

So long as I don't get a mishap on the Astrogation check for this plotted course, I should be good to go.

[CRMcNeill]

vanir, I sometimes wonder if you are getting paid by the word.

In the end, I just use the Holocron's Nav Computer; it's simpler.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

[ZzaphodD]

[Fallon Kell]

[vanir]

Oh don't mind me I sometimes fall asleep to the sound of my own keystrokes, it's like rain on a tin roof


I appreciate there are much simplified ways of doing things but if we understand technically how and why the navigation computer and astrogator themselves are plotting the courses and working as a system, then we know how best to rule specific calls as a GM.

For example: limited entry navcomputers like in starfighters or an astromech droid.
Describing the operation of plotting a complex hyperspace course with multiple course changes and difficulties amid the journey also places into context statements like "stores up to 10 hyperspace coordinates."
Clearly that would relate to detailed charts surrounding 10 galactic locations, whereby travel to any of the stored coordinate locations will be a matter of the astrogation roll, but so long as the ultimate destination is stored in the navcomputer then irrespective of how many other locations are passed enroute, a complex course can be plotted to any set of coordinates stored in the system, in this example an astromech.

You could for example, with Coruscant as one set of stored coordinates and star readings taken from your current location at Brentaal, go from Brentaal to Coruscant, passing Anaxes along the way and even get pulled from hyperspace at Anaxes by Imperial interdictors, but not actually plot a course from Brentaal to Anaxes because the equations will come up invalid, since Anaxes star charts aren't in the navcomputer and you're not there now to take readings.
But once you were pulled down at Anaxes you could then recalculate your former course to Coruscant by taking current readings from Anaxes as the new current location.
Thus making a total of two hyperspace jumps, from two locations other than Coruscant, with only the coordinates for Coruscant stored as one of your 10 charts in the astromech.
It works logically, and basically very similar to actual modern military flight navigation systems, with full navcomputers working like NATO TACOM and limited navcomputers or astromechs working like older NATO or Eastern Bloc (Russian) flight nav systems. You navigate flying around Europe and recognising abstract aerial territories and defence district regions, as well as finding friendly airfields rather than high security foreign ones that'll shoot you down, like this. It's especially important if you fly anywhere around Asia Minor, it's like friendly Bulgarians one spot then veer 2-degrees starboard and shot down by Ukrainians.

So say you buy an old starfighter with a limited navcomputer that stores 2 sets of coordinates, like some of my PCs have, then you might have a safeworld or fleet rendezvous as one set programmed in, and use the other set for the actual jump destination. The course plotted to get there could be as complex as the astrogator wishes to raise the difficulty level, and current readings from your location will let you get there from where you are, but charts for anywhere in-between aren't detailed enough to add in as stopovers. If you stop anywhere else you'll have to take a new set of readings at your current location, and only jump to one of the 2 charted locations you've got saved into the navcomputer.
To change one of those, you'll have to visit a starport or datalink to a more powerful ship with a full navcomputer, and calculate then upload new coordinates to replace the stored ones.


Understanding how the systems are working makes it more detailed for GM rulings on RPG stuff.

[ZzaphodD]

[lurker]

First THANK YOU for the replies, Regardless of it being straight line ish or twisting turning form everything here I now understand and can picture how hyperspace travel works ...

...

[Barrataria]

[vanir]