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Hyfigh
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: Requiring character investment in gear |
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I admit that I'm a little liberal when it comes to providing equipment to my PC's. The problem is that if one of my players knows how the system works well enough, they can use their gear to a higher level of advantage than other players. Considering they likely understand the rules overall a bit better, they tend to outshine my other players in most roleplaying aspects.
This said, I'm trying to develope a way to require some real character investment to aquire advanced gear. The current rules are arbitrary in that they use intangable resources. Money and time, in game terms, really mean nothing to the player when it boils down to it. Trying to regulate money and time is also daunting; more-so, in my opinion, than requiring real investment from the character.
I want the characters to need to invest some of their CP into their gear. Essentially, I need them to have to decide between skilling up, or investing into that [insert cool weapon/item here] they've been eyeing.
I tried to create a "gear score" system, but it was too cumbersome; there are simply too many variables to make an item have a reasonable price-tag.
I'm thinking of perhaps providing a CP cost for certain "classes" of items. The cost for an individual item could then be adjusted slightly based on any advantages that the item may or may not have. Problem is... How much should characters need to invest?
Has anyone come up with any system to this effect? |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Old edition had rules for putting CPs into ships and such. My GM allowed us to put CPs (then Skill Points) into gear as well (to improve it). I always found it a bit odd... I have no trouble making money and time real factors in the game... On the other hand you dont want to make the game into a looting-party.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hows about require streetwise, investigations or other similar skill rolls to LOCATE and then bargaining to acquire the more potent gear. Start with say gear with a rating of 1 for availability being an easy check, moderate for 2, difficult for 3 and heroic for 4.
Add to it for the lettered ratings.. 5 for f (fee). 10 for R (restricted), and 20 for X (Illegal)..
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Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have any 1st edition books. 
I like your idea garhkal...
I was thinking a bit more on it and think I may have a solution. In D20 games I tend to use M&M as my base because of similar issues I have with money based systems for equipment. In M&M I can make gear with a cost through certain powers. It's actually really simple. I have the D6 Powers book. I can likely just work something out from that. Sadly, I'm AFB right now. =( |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Hows about require streetwise, investigations or other similar skill rolls to LOCATE and then bargaining to acquire the more potent gear. Start with say gear with a rating of 1 for availability being an easy check, moderate for 2, difficult for 3 and heroic for 4.
Add to it for the lettered ratings.. 5 for f (fee). 10 for R (restricted), and 20 for X (Illegal).. |
I thought this was pretty obvious.. I mean even if you got the cash you dont just run into an alley on Coruscant (even the shady parts) and look for an E-web.. Even if you do, that is asking for trouble.. Anyways, this way aquiring gear means you have in some way put CPs to get your hands on it..
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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*whew* Difficulty 51 for 4x? Pretty high! Considering they say that a slicer can break into the emperor's personal data files with a 31 on their computer programming/repair check. If you follow the guidelines in 2nd Ed. R&E
| Quote: | | Heroic: Information that only a select few individuals would know. The location of all of Emperor Palpatine's secret weapons vaults. |
| Quote: | | Heroic: Finding extremely rare merchandise which normally wouldn't be available, even under the best of circumstances. Finding a lightsaber for sale on the black market. |
Some game masters choose to allow players 1 or the other, either character points or a piece of rare gear.
For me, if there's a player who really wants to pick up some piece of gear which would give them a distinct advantage over everyone else, I make the player go through many hoops to achieve their goal. Also, it's imperative to keep in mind the difference between player & character knowledge; your player may want a piece of rare nifty gear, but does the character even know that it exists? If no, you can tell your player that you'll keep it in mind and maybe plant some breadcrumbs for his character to discover the existence of said equipment. Then, if he picks up on them, it will likely take him quite some time to track down where he might be able to acquire it, and then finally there's either the heist or having to brave some sort of black market deal that goes way south, and he has to fight off folks trying to heist his gear!
Maybe he fights them off, maybe he doesn't, if not then he maybe has to track down the group who stole his merchandise. If he does get rid of them, maybe the group marks him for death, still determined to get that piece of tech at all costs. Maybe next time they'll send an expert bounty hunter or an elite mercenary team for retrieval. This is still on the table if he manages to pull of a heist of his own and steal it, as the original buyer or owner may want to come after him. Keeping rare and exciting gear should be a quest all its own.
Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to get at, is that sometimes the best investment that a player or character can make is time. Having someone go on an epic quest is more fun for everyone, you just need to find the right balance between too easy and too hard. Which is totally subjective for every group.
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Hyfigh
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'll use the D6 Powers version to finish out this campaign. Characters are too involved to revamp everything. But I really like where this is going...
Hmmm... So, to mash some of this together:
Difficulty for each of these checks will be made based on the rarity and complexity to obtain the item.
Knowledge: [gear type] - this is to determine whether the character even knows about the gear that is being referenced.
Streetwise - used to determine whether the character can track the item down.
Bargain - for a check to verify they can "afford" it.
How about tech characters? Perhaps some kind of discount (as far as the difficulty is concerned) for them because they can buy parts. Perhaps lower the DC by 1 for every dice of tech... Engineering can be a full 3. Maybe add a certain number of that pools dice to certain rolls. What do you think? |
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jmanski
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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No discounts. Keep the gear expensive, imho.
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Hyfigh
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Meh, if the character is investing into things like Blaster Repair and (A) Blaster Engineering, I don't really see much reason to not reward them a little for the investment. It truly does mean other skills suffer so that they can have that reward. |
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thedemonapostle
Commander
Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 257
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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i had a character that i played for 10 years before being dumped into the npc pile. he had a 8D in blaster repair and a 6D in blaster engineering. it all started when i wanted a gun that didnt exist. in short his best skills other than those 2 were blaster: 7D and streetwise of 8D+2. i took the barabel in hot pants and a blast vest to negotiate prices once i found said item.
for us we could always find the basic parts but when we were making advanced stuff we needed advanced parts. i only took a couple of mistakes when making thermal detonators to realize we needed the good stuff and not the cheap stuff made in a basement on tatooine. also tatooine may be a great place to buy junk to make a junker ship but when your life is on the line you dont want a ship made out of second hand previously broken and jury rigged to work parts.
to get the good quality stuff, pc's are gonna need to spend the time effort money and skill/talent t make it happen.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| thedemonapostle wrote: | i had a character that i played for 10 years before being dumped into the npc pile. he had a 8D in blaster repair and a 6D in blaster engineering. it all started when i wanted a gun that didnt exist. in short his best skills other than those 2 were blaster: 7D and streetwise of 8D+2. i took the barabel in hot pants and a blast vest to negotiate prices once i found said item.
for us we could always find the basic parts but when we were making advanced stuff we needed advanced parts. i only took a couple of mistakes when making thermal detonators to realize we needed the good stuff and not the cheap stuff made in a basement on tatooine. also tatooine may be a great place to buy junk to make a junker ship but when your life is on the line you dont want a ship made out of second hand previously broken and jury rigged to work parts.
to get the good quality stuff, pc's are gonna need to spend the time effort money and skill/talent t make it happen. |
To get a high combat skills for my DIY combat droid i stripped programming from a assassin droid head I found in a droid scrap yard. It worked perfectly until suddenly the assassin droid personality program manifested itself in my rebuilt cargo droid.... This happened while the droid was inside the groups (soon to be junk) ship.
So, getting 'free stuff' might not be cheap at all in the end... 
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Hyfigh wrote: | | Meh, if the character is investing into things like Blaster Repair and (A) Blaster Engineering, I don't really see much reason to not reward them a little for the investment. It truly does mean other skills suffer so that they can have that reward. |
Yeah, the logistics become a real balancing dynamic too. Like thedemonapostle said, you can't just make a roll and have a brand new engineered blaster. If you were to invent something brand new, you wouldn't necessarily have the parts for it to all come together. Certainly if you were a genius, you could draw up the plans in an all-nighter if your muse got a hold of you. But then you'd have to fabricate the parts, machine the housing, and probably buy certain components on the open market, but it winds up being a very expensive and time-consuming process. It could even be the focus of a few adventures trying to get all of the components you need, or have to construct.
Then, once you've got it, it becomes a coveted item. And if it is particularly powerful, then there will be people who want to get their hands on it... and the plans... and the one who build it.
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Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Hyfigh wrote: | | Meh, if the character is investing into things like Blaster Repair and (A) Blaster Engineering, I don't really see much reason to not reward them a little for the investment. It truly does mean other skills suffer so that they can have that reward. |
Yeah, the logistics become a real balancing dynamic too. Like thedemonapostle said, you can't just make a roll and have a brand new engineered blaster. If you were to invent something brand new, you wouldn't necessarily have the parts for it to all come together. Certainly if you were a genius, you could draw up the plans in an all-nighter if your muse got a hold of you. But then you'd have to fabricate the parts, machine the housing, and probably buy certain components on the open market, but it winds up being a very expensive and time-consuming process. It could even be the focus of a few adventures trying to get all of the components you need, or have to construct.
Then, once you've got it, it becomes a coveted item. And if it is particularly powerful, then there will be people who want to get their hands on it... and the plans... and the one who build it. |
Agreed |
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thedemonapostle
Commander
Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 257
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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for me my gm made the custom weapon 'quirky', that is to say when i rolled a 1 on the wild die the power pack blew out of the weapon, literally shot right out of the weapon. on a 6 on the wild die, it overcharged the shot and kicked back really hard. now do keep in mind it was a pump action blaster shotgun where each "shell" was a power pack that was good for one shot. it could hold 7 power packs in a box magazine. so yes each shot was pricey and risky. but it had style.
you gotta make their equipment worth saving. its gotta have a personality about it. think millenium falcon. worth having worth saving and as i recall that ship had a lot of "personality" to it.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Once my GM let me have a blaster carbine with a relay in the trigger mechanism that essentially let me do a "double tap" for every shot. Any time it rolled a 1 on the Wild Die the relay malfunctioned, and the weapon couldn't fire until I took it back to the work bench, and spent 20 minutes resetting the device. It was actually pretty hilarious. Instead of it being an overpowered weapon, it became a gamble. I think might have made fewer damage rolls for the blaster fire than I did getting angry with a useless piece of machinery and bashing my enemies over the head with it.
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