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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: When the player is not there, but is returning. |
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Over on one of my 2 ADND related sites, we are having discussions concerning what happens to a PC's character (especially their belongings) when they are not there.
The first longer thread, dealt with someone taking a big bow (massive magic), btu then announcing he is leaving the group for good.
I then put up a new thread, for what about when they are just absent for a few sessions, BUT they carry or have something that is needed later on while they are absent.
Such as happened a while back in one of my home games.
4 regular players, 3 off and on players, 1 who like me was fellow mil.
Each character had a 'side job' they would work when not there (the mil guy's was as a junk salvager using his ship.
Session ended (just before he went on a 3 month TAD) where we disemminated stuff we got from a successful mission, and left things at that. He went, his character did his side job.
1 mo-3 weeks into the TAD, our session hit a snag in that one of the items he was given (which is now with him on his ship) the party realized they needed...
So, since his character is elsewhere, and unless in the same system (or using the pricy holonet or some other messenger system), you ain't getting a request to him to say
"OI send us X to planet Y"
How would you have handled it?
How DO you handle other such situations?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16260
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I would say keep the character in play as an NPC, so that his skills and equipment are available when needed. However, make sure to keep the NPC out of danger (for the most part) unless something TPK's the entire group.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: When the player is not there, but is returning. |
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| garhkal wrote: | | How DO you handle other such situations? |
In our Star Wars equipment is either fungible, never a deciding factor in scenario success, or is basically a one-off or one-use item like the gravity well projector on one scenario.
Character connections and motivations are more likely to be hard to replace. But in either case, running the PC as an NPC works. We have done that with several PCs when the player was leaving the campaign.
I've also used Skype to play with people who can't physically be present. As long as it is one-to-one location you can do video and it works pretty well. That might have worked for someone who is temporarily deployed elsewhere. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10396
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: |
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I'll have to echo Bren that I try to design my stories so that material items are not that vital to the ongoing story. I don't like games (as a player or GM, Star Wars or otherwise) with that materialistic mentaility. A long equipment and weapons list, heh! Massive credit account build-up, heh! My players should grave not these things. Adventure and excitement? Check!
For Rebel adventures, the Alliance owns everything, including credits gained on adventures. You are supposed to fighting for the cause, not for personal gain. Everything you have is considered to be loaned from the Alliance. For non-Rebel adventures (like characters trying to make a living in the universe), I find it is best to keep the PCs for want of things. The need for equipment and money creates many adventure possiblities. Actually having things doesn't lead to nearly as many. I always warn my players don't get too attached to any nifty weapons or equipment (except PC starships which I often treat as characters in their own right). Equipment and weapons can get stolen, confiscated, destroyed, etc. I try to take a minimalist approach with respect to technology when possible. For many of my adventures, my players' PCs don't need much more than a ship and a good blaster at their sides, kid.
I'm taking this mentality to a new extreme for my next campaign. The players won't know about it ahead of time, but the PCs are all going to start out captured by a crime lord with all weapons and equipment confiscated. So the PCs are starting out with nothing but their clothes on their backs (and they won't get their stuff back). What I haven't decided is that if I am going to have the players go to all the trouble to purchasing equipment just to yank it all away at the very beginning of the game (the evil GM route), or if I'll tell the players to not bother recording any equipment or weapons (which will give then some suspicions about the first adventure and possible even make them a little nervous). I'm not an evil GM, really! The main goal is for the adventures to be fun, no matter if the PCs have a lot of material items and money, or not.
One of the prominent messages of the Star Wars films is that technology won't save you (Luke destroying the "technolgical terror" of the Death Star without R2 and his targeting computer, the primitive Ewoks defeating a severely technogically superior force, etc.). That is one of the beautiful ironies about Star Wars: It is a super-technological setting to further illustrate that technology should not be that important as other things. Like loyalty to and faith in your friends. Making the right moral choice in the end. Belief in and use of the Living Force. The technology is just a vehicle of the story, but should not be the driving force behind the story.
That is the way I see it anyway. I don't like running PCs as GCs so I usually "write" them out of the story (like the other job or mission, thing). If an absent PC has something in his posession the other PCs need, then too bad. Complication of the story I guess. But if it was vital to the story then I would probably try to create some reason it would not have to go with the absent PC thus making it available to the remaining PCs. But I would try to avoid that need in the first place.
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Last edited by Whill on Tue May 03, 2011 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16260
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:11 am Post subject: |
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But technology is also part and parcel of the SW universe, in the form of starships, lightsabers, blasters, repulsorlift, etc. This isn't just a case of the team being handicapped because the player running the Tech PC had to work a late shift or it was date night with his girlfriend. Every PC in a group is going to contribute important facets, not just in equipment, but in skills and abilities. The tech's skills and toolkits are the same as the smuggler and his light freighter, the bounty hunter and his weapons, the Jedi and his Force skills, and so on and so forth. If the character is missing for whatever reason, the group is missing a lot more than just his technology; they are also missing the expertise that the character brings to the group.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Wow Whill, that was beautiful. I'll have to say I'm pretty hard pressed to not agree with Whill on this topic. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | ...The players won't know about it ahead of time, but the PCs are all going to start out captured by a crime lord with all weapons and equipment confiscated. So the PCs are starting out with nothing but their clothes on their backs (and they won't get their stuff back). What I haven't decided is that if I am going to have the players go to all the trouble to purchasing equipment just to yank it all away at the very beginning of the game (the evil GM route), or if I'll tell the players to not bother recording any equipment or weapons (which will give then some suspicions about the first adventure and possible even make them a little nervous)... |
Letting the players spend time selecting equipment only to immediately yank it away wastes the players' time and runs a risk of needlessly annoying some of the players. One middle road approach would be to tell them that you have preselected the equipment for their characters for the first scenario. That way the players don't waste time selecting or buying equipment, but they may not immediately know they will start without any equipment.
| Quote: | | ...except PC starships which I often treat as characters in their own right... |
We also treat some droids in a similar fashion. Also, some PCs have a personal weapon or piece of equipment (lightsaber, father's sword, heirloom jewelry, signet ring, etc.) that is emotionally significant and may also be a story lead for that character. I tend to be pretty careful about permanently destroying or removing those items. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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A player in one of our earlier campaign 'Johnny the Pimp' made it his business to embezzle the Rebellion with as much gear as possible. This was mostly grenades and detonite and similar stuff (I think he faked crashing a 'cheap' starship once though. He also always managed to 'use' all gear he had gotten his hand on, down to the last blaster pack. In general he was very mercenary when it came to his gear. In the end the Rebellion got fed up (even though they couldnt prove anything) and sent us to the Minus Cluster to fend for our own..(ie starting the Tramp Freighter campaign). 
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mdlake
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Montclair, NJ
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: When the player is not there, but is returning. |
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| garhkal wrote: | | one of the items he was given (which is now with him on his ship) the party realized they needed... |
Well, there's need ("We need those fake IDs; how else are we going to get into the enemy base?") and there's need ("Only the blood of the rightful heir of Yugaria can refresh the magical wards against the Horrors from Beyond.")
The former is merely cause for creative thought. I'd just let the players mull over their dilemma, and sooner or later they'd work something out. The latter is a big ol' GM whoopsie when he knows a player might drop out on short notice. A GM fast on his feet can tweak his back story in this case; so can a GM wise enough not to paint himself into this kind of corner by giving away too much of the plot. This is the approach I'd take: shifting some part of the back story the players don't (yet) know about to paste over the problem, and revealing it the next session. Done well, the players might not notice, though generally my players would be cagey enough to spot it and polite enough to let it slide. Though it might be painful to see my artistic vision so maimed to recover from a rookie mistake, a need to keep the action moving comes before ego.
But I gather you're one of those hyper-objective GMs for whom the universe is what it is and won't budge an inch for the needs of plot or PC, who have to earn everything they get, in strict accordance with reality as it is given to them. In which case, this is a real test of principles, eh? |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: When the player is not there, but is returning. |
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| mdlake wrote: | | Well, there's need ("We need those fake IDs; how else are we going to get into the enemy base?") and there's need ("Only the blood of the rightful heir of Yugaria can refresh the magical wards against the Horrors from Beyond.") |
Nice example of the difference between want and need.  |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: When the player is not there, but is returning. |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | How DO you handle other such situations? |
In our Star Wars equipment is either fungible, never a deciding factor in scenario success, or is basically a one-off or one-use item like the gravity well projector on one scenario.
Character connections and motivations are more likely to be hard to replace. But in either case, running the PC as an NPC works. We have done that with several PCs when the player was leaving the campaign.
I've also used Skype to play with people who can't physically be present. As long as it is one-to-one location you can do video and it works pretty well. That might have worked for someone who is temporarily deployed elsewhere. |
This incident was before Skype came about.. back in 94.
| Quote: | | Well, there's need ("We need those fake IDs; how else are we going to get into the enemy base?") and there's need ("Only the blood of the rightful heir of Yugaria can refresh the magical wards against the Horrors from Beyond.") |
IIRC it was more 1 than 2... but it was the ID maker (a single experimental prototype that not only makes them, but encodes them like the rank badges imps have.)
AS to when figured out.. 6 sessions after he went on hiatus. The party i felt would have known to hold off pushing the issue of infiltrating the imp facility cause of it, but they pushed ahead of time... I was low on excuses to stop them, when this came up.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Letting the players spend time selecting equipment only to immediately yank it away wastes the players' time and runs a risk of needlessly annoying some of the players. One middle road approach would be to tell them that you have preselected the equipment for their characters for the first scenario. That way the players don't waste time selecting or buying equipment, but they may not immediately know they will start without any equipment.. |
I doubt I would go the evil GM route because I'm not an evil GM. I prefer the truth (just not the whole truth) as much as possible. I'll probably tell the players that their PCs' equipment will be provided for them in the first adventure, which is the truth (just not at the beginning of the adventure). After escaping the clutches of the crime lord and the local authorities, the plot of the adventure will provide the starting equipment to the players.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | ...except PC starships which I often treat as characters in their own right... |
We also treat some droids in a similar fashion. Also, some PCs have a personal weapon or piece of equipment (lightsaber, father's sword, heirloom jewelry, signet ring, etc.) that is emotionally significant and may also be a story lead for that character. I tend to be pretty careful about permanently destroying or removing those items. |
I've had some important supporting droid CGs but they usually stay behind on the ship because droids have always had a tendency to get destroyed in my games if they go adventuring with the PCs too much. Haven't had too many heirlooms but if a PC in my game has earned a lightsaber, when they temporarily lose possession of it I always give the PCs a good chance to recover it (and they do). I'm trying to remember but I don't think I have ever destroyed a PC's lightsaber.
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I doubt I would go the evil GM route because I'm not an evil GM... |
And yet your picture says otherwise. 
| Quote: | | I've had some important supporting droid CGs but they usually stay behind on the ship because droids have always had a tendency to get destroyed in my games if they go adventuring with the PCs too much. |
We aren't any harder on droids than PCs. Possibly the reverse if the droids aren't combat droids. Haven't had any combat droids on the PC's side yet.
| Quote: | | Haven't had too many heirlooms but if a PC in my game has earned a lightsaber, when they temporarily lose possession of it I always give the PCs a good chance to recover it (and they do). I'm trying to remember but I don't think I have ever destroyed a PC's lightsaber. |
Between my co-GM and myself, we've had probably 6+ heirlooms of some type or other. Probably averaging at 1 or more per PC group. I guess somebody likes the idea.  |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10396
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | I've had some important supporting droid CGs but they usually stay behind on the ship because droids have always had a tendency to get destroyed in my games if they go adventuring with the PCs too much. |
We aren't any harder on droids than PCs. Possibly the reverse if the droids aren't combat droids. Haven't had any combat droids on the PC's side yet. |
I'm not harder on droids than PCs, but droids are not as "hard" as PCs. No, I have never had any combat droids in the PC party, so PC-owned droids are in my games have usually been astromech or medical droids. They have low Move, low STR and no Dodge, and since they aren't R2-D2-caliber droids, they are also not PC-caliber droids (and I've never allowed droid PCs). On the rare occasions the PCs have taken droid out with them adventuring, the group inevitably eventually gets caught in a firefight/chase, and the droids have gotten left behind or blasted to bits. And then the droids sometimes get replaced. My PCs usually (wisely) leave the droids behind on the ship. Even staying on the ship they are never completely out of danger, but the odds of their survival are much better. I enjoy playing droid GCs and give some of them quirky personalities for fun, but they are still equipment that PCs shouldn't get too attached to, especially if they don't keep them safe.
| Bren wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | I doubt I would go the evil GM route because I'm not an evil GM... |
And yet your picture says otherwise. |
Ha ha. I'm a good GM who plays evil villains, like the Emperor. I actually chose this avatar because that same picture of the Palpatine use to be hanging up on the PC-side of my GM screen (beside the sign that said "Role, not roll"). Being the GM, I play an entire galaxy of villains, with the ultimate villain in the galaxy (and ultimate enemy of the Rebellion) being the Emperor. Of course he and Vader normally only appears in my game in cinematic cut-away scenes described to the players, but I love hamming it up using my best character impersonations. And there was that one campaign finale where the PCs actually went up against Palpatine face-to-face. That was fun! But mostly, the Emperor is just a symbol of the conflict in the galaxy that the PCs must face, and thus, an avatar of this GM.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I'm not harder on droids than PCs, but droids are not as "hard" as PCs... |
Very true.
When I GM, I always have the first Star Wars firefight in on the Tantive IV with blaster bolts flying all around C-3PO and R2-D2 in the back of my mind. That and the fact that most protocol and astromech droids are basically no threat in a firefight, hence not a priority target for most opponents. That being said, my PC with an heirloom astromech is pretty careful of where the droid goes and Tooey the droid does have dodge 4D.
Not saying that is your intent, but I can see where if the droids are a fungible item, then blasting them is a low emo-cost way of showing that combat is dangerous, sort of like a mechanical red-shirt. |
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